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IslandHopper · 09-01-2010, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Dunno if this post will get through as we are 12 miles off the coast..

anyways, I would be cutting out the big white blob and just running the chartplotter and electronics.

No one needs a big compass like that anymore and a for a few dollars a hand held would be fine in an emergency.

Island Hopper, I know its something close to your heart, but its not worth losing buisness over...

People are in a new age and if the old geer wants to be kept at all then its behoven on their exponants to try their best to keep them relevant.

All the best

Mark

Hi Mark, I don't do this for a living, only to keep my hand in, i am well and trully converted and this was only a favor for a mutual mate...

I certainly don't preach the old ways either, that would be a little hypocritical i think as the the ships i am Master on these days are all ECDIS equipped and i love it

But, for my own personal satisfaction i like to keep the old skills, that where drummed into me more years ago than i care to remember, honed...

As for telling him to get rid of his compass, i did'nt go that far, but i did offer a few suggestions of how to better set up his helm and still be able to keep everything....

Cheers
John

delmarrey · 09-01-2010, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Up to a point you are correct, but if you are holding a steady compass course with the electrics off and then turn them on, the compass course read out will change, and if you do not note this you will end up chasing the original course prior to switching the electrics on...
This was demonstrated to the owner and the diff was 12 deg with all the electronics on, this obviously changed when selecting them one at a time, a 12 deg compass error going unnoticed is dangerous in anyones language, especially if you are steering with it...

I concur with David. I never take my compass seriously, it's just a reference for me. With all the deviation between the compass and charts, it's a PITA on smaller vessels to try and do the formulas on paper, unless I were a long way off shore and the GPS went out. Then I'd rely on celestial navs for the most part and the compass to keep a steady course. The ancient mariners only had a magnetic shaped fish and managed to cross oceans just on the words of foreigners.

I mainly use the compass for keeping a course. I'll set the course visually (inland) or by the GPS and then see what the compass reads and then maintain that setting if it's convenient. But inland I mainly use visual land marks.
The other times I use the compass are comparisons to the wind direction. Inland I sail by visual and wind direction and use the compass to note wind changes. If it gets too radical I usually get pissed off and start the motor.

But that's the downfall of inland sailing.

IslandHopper · 09-01-2010, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ

People are in a new age and if the old geer wants to be kept at all then its behoven on their exponants to try their best to keep them relevant.

I feel i must comment on this though and offer a few facts....

As far as commercial shipping goes, studing and been examined on subjects such as Compass, Celestial Nav, Manual Plotting and any of the old Nav stuff that predates GPS are still a requirement in obtaining your tickets, you don't pass this stuff you don't get a ticket, period....
On my last trip we had a 22 year old cadet on board who is still having to do this for his second mates, and part of my duty as the old man is to correctly answer his questions when asked, so rather than look the fool i make sure i know the answers....

No offence intended here Mark, i just thought i would point out the old stuff is still as valid these days in obtaining a commercial ticket (in Australia at least) as it was pre GPS....

Cheers

John

shadow · 09-01-2010, 20:40

I was assuming that a man by the name of captain Nemo would be helming that station!! nice pic

paradix · 09-01-2010, 20:49

I just assumed that the shot was taken looking aft, from the trailer to Star Wars 7, and we had R2D2 at the helm...

IslandHopper · 09-01-2010, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

I concur with David.

Forgive me, but i am a little unsure as to what you are concuring with, all i pointed out was if you where steering by compass, and by that i mean compass alone, and you had an unknown error of 12 deg you could find yourself aways of course, or if in the close proximity of land, reef or shallows, you could find your self steering into danger...

sabray · 09-01-2010, 20:59

it is amazing how well a course can be steered with a compass. It is as well a good refrance point. The newbies on board get glued to the tv screen chartplotter. when encouraged to steer by the compass and referance the gps they are happy to realize the efficiency of the simple compass. With that said mine has not been properly swung.
The chartplotter is probably a bit to close and the wiring runs well more of the same. Even though checked against the auto pilot and gps it differs only a few degrees.

delmarrey · 09-01-2010, 21:12

Sorry to rattle on so. And I did click the wrong quote, this is the one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M
That compass is still useful for holding a steady course. Its adjustment is obviously wacked.

For some of us recreational sailors the compass is not such a big deal. But yeah, in a fog, 12º could get one in trouble.

Heck, one day just talking to my wife and enjoying the view cost me a couple pounds of lead from my keel and the compass was spot on. It was the chart and the CG's lack of shoal markings that did me in.

I've taken & passed the 100 ton courses but had no desire to apply for the "tickets" since I plan to be totally recreational.
No offese or sarcasm implied!

**s/v Beth** · 09-01-2010, 21:22

I have always wanted a set of those "spheres" But I have to get a steel boat to get them? Hmmm- I will just stick to fiberglass I guess.
BTW- my compass works and I use it. Primary navigation tool in my book. Old school? All of my electronics are at least 4 feet from my compass....

Pelagic · 09-01-2010, 21:27

I think the point IslandHopper makes is that ignorance about the equipment you may need to use … “is just plain wrong!”… and I fully agree.

What value you place on having a reliable magnetic compass close to the helm is up to you. (For me it is an important safety check with what the electronics are saying)

Professional mariners with all the latest ECDIS equipment will still want a standard magnetic compass (usually mounted above the bridge with a periscope viewing device), so as to be away from the variable errors of electronic equipment.

Their log book has a column for Mag heading and for them, in the case of a Bridge Fire, it is the get home piece of equipment you should be able to adjust, maintain and rely on.

Because of similar training, I was pleased to see that the previous owner of Star Gazer had kept this in mind. He placed the compass far enough away from the electronics to be reliable and with small adjusting rods I have been able to get it reasonably close.

Those who laugh at the idea have yet to be out there in the fog with only a magnetic compass to get you home.

IslandHopper · 09-01-2010, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

No offese or sarcasm implied!

No worries, it's all good...

Cheers

John

IslandHopper · 09-01-2010, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think the point IslandHopper makes is that ignorance about the equipment you may need to use … “is just plain wrong!”… and I fully agree.

What value you place on having a reliable magnetic compass close to the helm is up to you. (For me it is an important safety check with what the electronics are saying)

Professional mariners with all the latest ECDIS equipment will still want a standard magnetic compass (usually mounted above the bridge with a periscope viewing device), so as to be away from the variable errors of electronic equipment.

Their log book has a column for Mag heading and for them, in the case of a Bridge Fire, it is the get home piece of equipment you should be able to adjust, maintain and rely on.

Because of similar training, I was pleased to see that the previous owner of Star Gazer had kept this in mind. He placed the compass far enough away from the electronics to be reliable and with small adjusting rods I have been able to get it reasonably close.

Those who laugh at the idea have yet to be out there in the fog with only a magnetic compass to get you home.

Very well put, maybe you should have started the thread..

Yes, we still have to maintain a compass log, infact it's a survey requirement, and you can almost guarantee the surveyor will have a quick glance when on board...

Even today, the large majority of new builds that have bridges looking like something out of Star Wars, still come fully equipped with all the old tools of the trade...

Your right, in fog it's nice to know you are not going around in circles...

Cheers

John

PS: i could quite easily spend some time sipping G&T's or a good Port in your cockpit, very nice indeed, well done...

SkiprJohn · 11-01-2010, 14:27

I wouldn't be going to sea without one of those big ole compasses. Even in harbor I steer by them. More and more I meet folks who sail at night without a light on their compass and I ask them about it and they say they just use their electronics. I say ok and get off their boat at the earliest opportunity.
I've seen some odd places where folks have mounted their compass but I haven't seen anything like the photo in your first post John
regards,

Bash · 11-01-2010, 15:01

I use the compass to figure gybe angles, and to measure how much I've been lifted or headed. Even with all the newest electronics at the helm, which I have, they don't do what the compass does as easily.

I'm throwing my lot in with the old timers on this one. I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who, having taken the helm, have no idea how to respond to the instruction, "Head up fifteen degrees."