Thoughts from experienced skippers please

[Stewie12]

You have to be responsible and keep your crew safe. At least a life raft is required or I would not do it.

[scottydaum]

1. I have been IN THE WATER in the Gulf of Mexico with no raft and no EIPERB. .
The water temp this time of year is warm and makes it survivable for many hours if not days. I assure you it would be better better in a raft.
2. The scarrier feeling is knowing you are in the water, noobody knows you are in the waterand the only hope of rescue is IF another boat spots you in the water.
3. I would go without a raft but NOT without an EIPERB and well stocked bail out bag with fresh flares and Emergency light.
4. When I had just gotten my USCG Ticket back in 1980 I was offered the chance to deliver a 50+ foot wooden motor yacht from South Florida to the California coast.
I was very proud of myself and thought my delivery career was off to a great start.
An old guy at the boatyard who was a Shipwright and Surveyor pulled me aside and quietly told me to pass on that boat. I really respected his opinion and did take a pass.
Later that year the boat sank of the CA coast and Captain and 3 Crew went into the watand were rescued.
It tu turned out the 3 Doctors Doctors who owned the boat knew it was unsound, had over insured it, and was actually county on the boat sinking.
They had purposely hired an inexperienced Licensed Cast who would be eager for the trip, and it also looked better to the Insurance Company when they submitted the claim.
The Insurance Company wise wise to the trick and figured it out and caught them. Big fines and jail time for the Owners.
Sometimes it's just better let one go.
5. Make sure and double check the bridge clearance on the Okeechobee Waterway, as well as Lake Okeechobbee Water levels. The lake can be as much of a problem as anything if you are too tall or too deep.

[jen1722terry]

I agree with Island Time 025: what else could be wrong with the yacht of an owner who cares so little for the safety of his employees?

Whatever you decide to do, the very best of luck.

[Sailshabby]

Have you looked over the crew’s sailing resumes? They bringing PLBs?

[sailingchiro]

I have made that trip many times. We prefer to "go inside" at Port St. Joe into the ICW. It is a lovely trip with manatees and alligators. Stop at Appalachicola and spend the night. We bypass Carrabelle and go straight from Appalachicola to St. Pete. Is the railroad bridge still 50' on the Okeechobee? I am too tall and must go around.

Your concern is warranted. We have had some really bad weather "pop" up on the west coast of Florida. Take a way to talk to the outside world other than the VHF (satellite phone, EPIRB, PLB, SPOT, etc.) If you have problems, you want someone looking for you. I would also want some type of secondary floating device (liferaft or dinghy).
In aviation and marine, I was always taught to have redundancy. Or a backup plan. At the least, rent raft or dinghy. If that doesn't work for you, purchase a cheap expired life raft or craigslist a dinghy. But have something besides an unknown boat to save you. Think of all the "gotchas" on an unknown boat. I mean a broken hose clamp, then a non functioning bilge pump, and a dead battery. In aviation, my instructor told me it was the 3rd gotcha that killed you.
Better to have and not need than need and not have. Just sayin.

[girdasso]

I would consider it essential to have appropriate safety and emergency gear onboard no matter what the owner provides.
Another responder suggested a thorough check of the seaworthiness of the boat also and some knowledge of the maintenance and history of the boat. I would not go to sea without both of the above.
Taking others on board makes you responsible for their safety and negligent unless you take appropriate precautions.
we do not have enough information to say what is appropriate.
Hire the required gear and charge to the owner. if he does not agree don't do the job.
Also essential would be to have a safety briefing with the crew before leaving to ensure they are familiar with all the safety gear and procedures

[girdasso]

I would consider it essential to have appropriate safety and emergency gear onboard no matter what the owner provides.
Another responder suggested a thorough check of the seaworthiness of the boat also and some knowledge of the maintenance and history of the boat. I would not go to sea without both of the above.
Taking others on board makes you responsible for their safety and negligent unless you take appropriate precautions.
we do not have enough information to say what is appropriate.
Hire the required gear and charge to the owner. if he does not agree don't do the job.
Also essential would be to have a safety briefing with the crew before leaving to ensure they are familiar with all the safety gear and procedures

[Dirk01]

Originally Posted by sailingchiro

I have made that trip many times. We prefer to "go inside" at Port St. Joe into the ICW. It is a lovely trip with manatees and alligators. Stop at Appalachicola and spend the night. We bypass Carrabelle and go straight from Appalachicola to St. Pete. Is the railroad bridge still 50' on the Okeechobee? I am too tall and must go around.

Your concern is warranted. We have had some really bad weather "pop" up on the west coast of Florida. Take a way to talk to the outside world other than the VHF (satellite phone, EPIRB, PLB, SPOT, etc.) If you have problems, you want someone looking for you. I would also want some type of secondary floating device (liferaft or dinghy).
In aviation and marine, I was always taught to have redundancy. Or a backup plan. At the least, rent raft or dinghy. If that doesn't work for you, purchase a cheap expired life raft or craigslist a dinghy. But have something besides an unknown boat to save you. Think of all the "gotchas" on an unknown boat. I mean a broken hose clamp, then a non functioning bilge pump, and a dead battery. In aviation, my instructor told me it was the 3rd gotcha that killed you.
Better to have and not need than need and not have. Just sayin.

Fully agree! Esp. to the "In aviation and marine, I was always taught to have redundancy. Or a backup plan."

Just did a transfer from Portimao / Portugal into the Baltic Sea. In February this year. AIS, Liferaft and EPIRB were mandatory. And crossing the Biskay bay the plan B was Iridium Go. Rented it for the crossing.

I was responsible for 3 crew.

Cheers
Dirk

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

I wouldn’t be concerned about the lack of a life raft (we’ve done longer hops on our boat without one), and I’d bring my own EPIRB. If I’m docking, then the lack of a dinghy wouldn’t bother me either (if conditions are bad enough to cause a sinking, a dinghy in lieu of a liferaft isn’t going to be particularly helpful).

What WOULD give me pause is taking an off-shore hop on an old wood boat that has a new owner who isn’t familiar with its maintenance history. But everyone’s level of acceptable risk obviously varies.

Conditions aside, I'd be more concerned about fire, you have to get off in this case.
Not having any backup plan is looking for something to happen.
EPIRB, on any open ocean passage.
Boatyarddog

[Dirk01]

One don't have to be very expirienced. Common sense is sufficient.

It doesn't matter what the reason is that you have to leave the boat. In this case, a life raft, or at least a dinghy, is the only thing that can swim longer than you.

When you need help and no one else is around, an EPIRB is the only way to get some.
An AIS is a nice-to-have. The same goes for a satellite phone (especially for less than 240 nm offshore).

Cheers
Dirk

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

I think when you write the contract with him, clearly state in bullet points what you require for a passage. Following that give him a choice to relinquish any liability if those bullet points are refused by him.
There is plenty of example in the internet on how to draw a simple liability waiver enforceable in both Alabama and Florida.

In fact, you should also review your contract with the hired hands. Invest in a local lawyer with two types of liability releases and it will serve you for your next .

This is bad advice. Maritime law and land based law are not the same. You, the licensed captain, are liable for whatever happens, regardless. The Coast Guard could care less for any waiver or reassignment of liability. You are delivering a boat for hire under the umbrella of your license. That requires you to have all the necessary safety equipment on board to protect the lives of your crew. This is where you establish yourself as a maritime professional. You don’t ask the owner if he will supply the necessary gear, you tell him you require it. Rental or purchase is up to him.

As for the false rationale that it is “only a 30hr trip”, the odds that something critical will fail are statistically the same for a trip of any duration. It is your professional and ethical responsibility to prepare for the worst case scenario.

[GrowleyMonster]

I don't see anything wrong with your decision. Any time you are not comfortable with taking a boat to sea is a good time to not take that boat to sea. Your reasons could be debated, sure, but you don't have to participate in that debate. For a boat's skipper, safety is never debateable and your personal standards of safety should not be compromised.

Not only that, but you will want CURRENT local knowledge before attempting to cut across FL at Okeechobee. You may very well end up having to go the long way around which would be fine and good except finding out the hard way too late could be very inconvenient and inefficient.

Let him get someone else if you are not comfortable with it.

[Lodesman]

I'm curious what the 3 paid crew think about this? Personally I don't see a need (in the strictest sense) for a liferaft or dinghy. I would personally bring my own survival suit, and expect the same from the crew.

The lack of EPIRB is puzzling though. Why would the owner skimp on a basic piece of safety equipment? I'm not sure about bringing one off your own boat, or even a rental - having the wrong MMSI will give no or erroneous information on the boat's description. Better than nothing, but a PLB would also work.

In addition to checking for a valid survey, it might be advisable to have the USCG do a "safety check." Don't want the owner to skimp on flares and fire extinguishers too.

And don't forget to file a float plan.

[Rumrace]

It’s your call. I’d call for a raft and ERB

[malbert73]

I think a raft is probably overkill for coastal but at least a good dinghy. And definitely an EPIRB. I carry a PLB as backup to EPIRB and my RIB is our lifeboat for short coastal hops (like NJ to RI)