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Snore · 23-04-2022, 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by GopherBaroque

I would appreciate a comment from a professional Captain what legal/professional requirements apply for safety equipment on the proposed voyage. Would lack of EPIRB or liferaft (or something els) represent a dereliction of duty for a licensed Captain under hire?

I am REQUIRED by the USCG to carry flares, fire extinguishers, life jackets, etc. A competent master would add an EPIRB. I have done many many coastal deliveries without a life raft or dinghy.

My guess is 90% of the vessels out there sailing coastal off Florida and elsewhere, do not have a life raft or dinghy.

As a competent master- when offshore, I also require a life raft with a current certification.

As a competent master I rig my own jacklines and rig hard points in the cockpit for crew to clip in. I also require anyone on deck at night - or when I deem it necessary, to clip in.

I also carry an Iridium GO so we can download weather twice a day. I also carry an inReach so owners or other interested parties can track us. These satellite communications also provide redundant means of calling for help.

LittleWing77 · 23-04-2022, 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snore

I am REQUIRED by the USCG to carry flares, fire extinguishers, life jackets, etc. A competent master would add an EPIRB. I have done many many coastal deliveries without a life raft or dinghy.

My guess is 90% of the vessels out there sailing coastal off Florida and elsewhere, do not have a life raft or dinghy.

As a competent master- when offshore, I also require a life raft with a current certification.

As a competent master I rig my own jacklines and rig hard points in the cockpit for crew to clip in. I also require anyone on deck at night - or when I deem it necessary, to clip in.

I also carry an Iridium GO so we can download weather twice a day. I also carry an inReach so owners or other interested parties can track us. These satellite communications also provide redundant means of calling for help.

+1

Rumrace · 23-04-2022, 04:13

So on Great Lake racing clubs have little day sail races in save inshore areas to get everyone out.
Then they have 2 man and crew races which cross the Lake into US and back. To compete in these races two pieces of expensive equipment required are an ERB and life raft.
There is no legitimate captain who doesn’t have control of the assets to protect their crew.

**boatman61** · 23-04-2022, 04:51

A tourist boat has sunk off the coast of Japan with 26 onboard.. A search is being conducted by helicopters and surface vessels after recieving a distress call saying they were sinking, as yet found no one.
I would imagine this boat would be required to carry liferafts/floats and life jackets and regularly inspected.
The sea should never be taken lightly.

Sky News..

A tour boat with 26 people - including two children - aboard has sunk with no sign of survivors after seven hours, Japan's coastguard has said.

The 19-ton Kazu1 made an emergency distress call in the early afternoon, saying the bow of the ship had been flooded and was beginning to sink and tilt.
The crew also said those on board were wearing life jackets and the boat was heeling at a 30-degree angle.

It was travelling off the western coast of Shiretoko Peninsula, in the northern island of Hokkaido.

There has been no contact from the boat since.
It was carrying 24 passengers, two of which were children, and two were crew members.

Six patrol boats and four aircraft have been dispatched to the area in the search for any survivors.

Lodesman · 23-04-2022, 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by smacksman

Agreed. But you wouldn't be out in a storm when so close to shelter. More likely a skin fitting shears off or you hit a container. Legally you have to have the works on board.

Doesn't necessarily have to be a storm. Dinghies are meant to be used in relatively protected waters. A 4-6 foot chop, not uncommon more than a few miles offshore, would be treacherous in a dinghy.

I don't believe there's a legal requirement for the subject vessel to have a liferaft .

Snore · 23-04-2022, 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

A tourist boat has sunk off the coast of Japan with 26 onboard.. A search is being conducted by helicopters and surface vessels after recieving a distress call saying they were sinking, as yet found no one.
I would imagine this boat would be required to carry liferafts/floats and life jackets and regularly inspected.
The sea should never be taken lightly.

Sky News..

A tour boat with 26 people - including two children - aboard has sunk with no sign of survivors after seven hours, Japan's coastguard has said.

The 19-ton Kazu1 made an emergency distress call in the early afternoon, saying the bow of the ship had been flooded and was beginning to sink and tilt.
The crew also said those on board were wearing life jackets and the boat was heeling at a 30-degree angle.

It was travelling off the western coast of Shiretoko Peninsula, in the northern island of Hokkaido.

There has been no contact from the boat since.
It was carrying 24 passengers, two of which were children, and two were crew members.

Six patrol boats and four aircraft have been dispatched to the area in the search for any survivors.

Apples and oranges mate.... A quick Google Maps check showed that to be a remote peninsula on a remote island. That neighborhood is more offshore than coastal. The trip being discussed here is truly a coastal hop.

If I don't have a life raft I am usually 5-10NM off. At that distance, I can raise USCG on VHF. Heck in the GOM, get the boat a mile or so off the shore and you could probably sit on the mast of a sunken sailboat to wait for a ride.

Side note- at risk of thread jacking--- Have to wonder how NONE of the life rafts were visible and how NONE of the PFDs were found after only 7 hours.

team karst · 23-04-2022, 06:09

I have some experience immersed in 32 deg water, some single engine ocean flying, and also afloat trying to signal random boats for rescue.
The proposed trip risk factors, to me, dont demand a raft or dink.
However, i do have, and would insist on taking: PLB, waterproof vhf, type1 jackets, and water streamer. The upper ‘70’s water temp is the big factor for me.
The inreach unit is highly desirable if these trips continue.

Lodesman · 23-04-2022, 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

The 19-ton Kazu1 made an emergency distress call in the early afternoon, saying the bow of the ship had been flooded and was beginning to sink and tilt.

I would not want to be on a vessel like this in 3m (9 ft) seas.

**boatman61** · 23-04-2022, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Doesn't necessarily have to be a storm. Dinghies are meant to be used in relatively protected waters. A 4-6 foot chop, not uncommon more than a few miles offshore, would be treacherous in a dinghy.

I don't believe there's a legal requirement for the subject vessel to have a liferaft .

Not forgetting its a wooden schooner, someone I knew had a plank spring while underway.. the boat went down in less than 5 minutes.
They barely had time to save themselves and lost everything including their cheeky African Grey.
I have sailed across the Biscay on a 22ftr in December without any safety gear bar flares, lost the dinghy in heavy seas 36hrs S of Ushant.. but then it was my boat and I was solo.. would have gone coastal if with one other.

kiwin · 23-04-2022, 15:20

I have been delivering yachts off and on since 1984. I have multiple Atlantic and Pacific crossings and a total of around 200,000 miles. The coastal stuff is the most dangerous. I will not deliver any boat without all the safety gear - EPIRB, man overboard recovery, flares, fire extinguishers, medical kit, liferaft, radios etc. As for who foots the bill for these, that is a commercial arrangement. But no safety gear, no delivery. Simple.

davefromoregon · 24-04-2022, 03:01

I’ve gone up and down the Washington coast a few times. I have all the other safety equipment but no life raft or EPIRP. However, I’ve had crew decide not to go because I don’t have them. I respect that decision. That said, we paid careful attention to the weather and made our navigation decisions accordingly.

This is not paid crew.

Dirk01 · 24-04-2022, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwin

I have been delivering yachts off and on since 1984. I have multiple Atlantic and Pacific crossings and a total of around 200,000 miles. The coastal stuff is the most dangerous. I will not deliver any boat without all the safety gear - EPIRB, man overboard recovery, flares, fire extinguishers, medical kit, liferaft, radios etc. As for who foots the bill for these, that is a commercial arrangement. But no safety gear, no delivery. Simple.

AGREED

nofacey · 24-04-2022, 16:41

Would you take your own boat on the same run without eprib/dinghy? Answer shouldn’t change.

lo2jones · 24-04-2022, 17:23

This is a different question. This stuff in stated clearly in the CFRs. What you might take on a delivery or a private trip are different from what one would take on a skippered charter for example. Each country has different regulations.