Traffic Separation Zones

[StuM]

Originally Posted by IntoMyHealth

Great responses. So, either fall in line or cross at 90 degrees. Always keep your radio on (and listen). AIS and RADAR are extremely valuable. Oh yeah, and eyes. Do I have it?

The TSS actually does show up upon zooming in a bit on the Navionics app.

As a small pleasure craft, you don't want to "fall in line". Stay out of the lanes unless you need to cross them. The ships using the lanes will not be moving at your speed and you will get in their way.

[Cheechako]

Primarily for large ships to keep them separated. You may often be going across them. Common sense says if you are traveling in one stay in it but out of the way!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Primarily for large ships to keep them separated. You may often be going across them. Common sense says if you are traveling in one stay in it but out of the way!

Common sense says if you are traveling in one, get out of it as quickly as possible. Traffic Lanes are not a good place to be unless you are a large ship. There will (almost) invariably be water outside of the lanes which is navigable by small craft.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by StuM

Common sense says if you are traveling in one, get out of it as quickly as possible. Traffic Lanes are not a good place to be unless you are a large ship. There will (almost) invariably be water outside of the lanes which is navigable by small craft.

Most I see there is no "out of it". It's simply a dividing line with no outside boundary.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by StuM

Waiting for Lodesman to turn up and say you are wrong.

Naah..!! Its a week day.. he's busy..

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Most I see there is no "out of it". It's simply a dividing line with no outside boundary.

Go to Chart 13200 and you can see two different TSS. The Boston Harbor TSS on top with no middle ground, and the Nantucket-Ambrose with a divide in the west opening to a non-divided in the east.

[chuckr]

Here are a few we have had to deal with

[chuckr]

some more

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by StuM

Waiting for Lodesman to turn up and say you are wrong.

Aah Stu, I thought I scared you off - and here you are obsessing about me on another thread. It's both touching and a little creepy.
You never answered my question on the ferry thread - it's a simple rule of the road query. Of course you won't be able to give a logical justification to an answer and stick to your bizarre interpretation of the rules.

Now you're spouting on about Traffic Schemes, another topic on which you clearly have no clue. Excellent.

And just to make you happy, Stumble is wrong. And not just about his use of the term "burdened", which you might recall from Dockhead's superlative explanation on that other thread, should be avoided.

I can explain his error to anyone willing to learn, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince those stubbornly entrenched in their beliefs. As the man says, you can't fix stupid.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Most I see there is no "out of it". It's simply a dividing line with no outside boundary.

Interesting, don't think I've ever come across a TSS with no outside boundary line on the chart - could you give a pointer to one, please?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

...
And just to make you happy, Stumble is wrong. And not just about his use of the term "burdened", which you might recall from Dockhead's superlative explanation on that other thread, should be avoided.

I can explain his error to anyone willing to learn, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince those stubbornly entrenched in their beliefs. As the man says, you can't fix stupid.

Please do explain how Stumble's statement that "<20m craft are obligated to stay clear and are always the give way vessel."

and COLREGs 10(j) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane."

are in conflict. Or why you think they are both wrong.

[CHAZ]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Aah Stu, I thought I scared you off - and here you are obsessing about me on another thread. It's both touching and a little creepy.
You never answered my question on the ferry thread - it's a simple rule of the road query. Of course you won't be able to give a logical justification to an answer and stick to your bizarre interpretation of the rules.

Now you're spouting on about Traffic Schemes, another topic on which you clearly have no clue. Excellent.

And just to make you happy, Stumble is wrong. And not just about his use of the term "burdened", which you might recall from Dockhead's superlative explanation on that other thread, should be avoided.

I can explain his error to anyone willing to learn, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince those stubbornly entrenched in their beliefs. As the man says, you can't fix stupid.

"Keep right
except to pass"
or
"Slower traffic
keep right"

are signs seen on US highways quite regularly but very few can read them

Nobody shall impede the safe passage of a vessel (in or out of a TSS). No need for a 20m tape measure.
Just learn and follow the rules or ask Lodesman, he knows his stuff
And no "jaywalking" when crossing a TSS.

Martin
North sea veteran (long time ago)
but maybe it changed

P.S.
Ultracrepidarian is some-thing(body) you do not wanna be
even as a shoemaker.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by conachair

Interesting, don't think I've ever come across a TSS with no outside boundary line on the chart - could you give a pointer to one, please?

You guys are correct. My bad.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Stumble

As a rule of thumb, stay as far away as possible from a TSS.

But as a quick primer, TSS' are generally made up of three zones, the separation zone (median of a highway), the traffic zone (the lanes), and the inshore zone. No one should ever be in the separation zone except while crossing, performing maintenance on the zone or to avoid a collision. It's a no go zone for all intents and purposes and you better have a good reason for being there.

Large ships are obligated to use the traffic zones, and only the traffic zones. Vessels under 20m and sailboats (while sailing) are always the burdened boat. Unlike in normal operation inside the traffic zone <20m craft are obligated to stay clear and are always the give way vessel. Given the speed delta between what a cruiser can do and the speeds commercial vessels maintain it means you will generally be giving way to vessels passing you up, and must get out of their way.

Finally the inshore zone is for small vessels, local traffic, and recreation. If you have to be present in a TSS make sure you are in the IZ and only cross to a TZ when absolutly necessary.

Also it is a good idea to remember that large vessels may take miles to turn around or slow down, so constant radio watch, radar watches and AIS watches are required. But n many TSS' there is also now a growing requirement that you have AIS to traffic the zone (other than crossing) even for vessels that otherwise wouldn't be required to carry one.

Finally in the heaviest traffic areas (like the Lower Mississippi) every vessel, even those just crossing the stream are required to check in and out of the scheme with the controller, and maintain triple radio watches. Usually on the bridge-to-bridge channel as well as a local channel, and as always maintain ch16 monitoring.

Again it depends on the TSS but since I know the Lower Mississippi... you are also responsible for knowing local conditions, because passage rules can change depending on the weather. On the LMR for instance if river height is above 15' you must maintain a minimum speed of 10kn. In fog they can issue an 'all red' meaning that all traffic is suspended, or a 'half red' where traffic is shut down to one way for a period of time.

You really need to find and read the guide book for the TSS you are in and become familure with the rules. Because the guys who run those waters all the time are very serious about keeping traffic moving in them.

There's a lot of good advice in this post, but the bolded and underlined part is not correct, and reflects a common misunderstanding of how TSS's work.

Rule 10 obligates all sailing vessels and all vessels under 20 meters to not impede vessels navigating in the TSS traffic lanes.

"Not impede" is not the same as "giving way" in a risk of collision situation. It means you are supposed to stay so much out of the way that a risk of collision never arises in the first place, in order to entirely avoid any giving way/standing on collision avoidance dance. IF, nevertheless, a risk of collision arises and vessels are in sight of one another, even if it's due to your fault, then the other steering & sailing rules take over and you must do the dance as specified in the steering & sailing rules, including standing on for a time in case Rule 8 requires that. But you should NEVER let it get to that point -- stay out of the TSS until the coast is clear, and then scoot across with heading (NOT COG) 90 degrees to the lanes at your best speed, preferably using your motor.

You MAY use the TSS traffic lanes -- there is no prohibition. But stay well to starboard, preferably right at the edge of the lane, in order to avoid "impeding" other traffic. We use the TSS lanes a lot in the North Sea, as the areas outside them are minefields of oil platforms


Heading vs COG is important in tidal waters -- trying to maintain a perpendicular COG will result in your crabbing across, and lingering longer in the lanes. Rule 10 specifically talks about heading. This can be a great advantage is you're trying to get somewhere not opposite where you start out from -- for example, if you want to get to Dover from Calais, you need to be sure that you leave on an ebb tide so you get swept towards, and not away from your destination.




A really niggly, pedantic point -- no vessel is ever "burdened"; this is an obsolete concept which was banished from the Rules in 1972.

[Time2Go]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Heading vs COG is important in tidal waters -- trying to maintain a perpendicular COG will result in your crabbing across, and lingering longer in the lanes. Rule 10 specifically talks about heading. This can be a great advantage is you're trying to get somewhere not opposite where you start out from -- for example, if you want to get to Dover from Calais, you need to be sure that you leave on an ebb tide so you get swept towards, an .

Agreed, if you can't play the tides in the channel
you better have a big engine.
It's why the RYA has the "Tidal" endorsement to
it's coastal skipper certification.
Some ports have a 7 meter tide
I once met a Dutch fellow in Fecamp
whose plan was to sail halfway to the UK to get
to Cherborg. Plan was to use Ebb,Flood,Ebb
Have no idea how it turned out
but that was his plan
Anybody who has seen a 1200 foot container ship
at less than a mile or two
Knows to stay way way away
When we were crossing Traffic Seperation Zones
it was always planned and we always had the engine running
We always were concerned about getting
out of the way no matter what and wanted
to know about a balky engine in advance
Cheers
Neil