Traffic Separation Zones

[boatman61]

True enough Ann.. however many boats crossing the channel to France do not have AIS.. sizes of boats doing the 60-80nm crossing vary from 21ft upwards.. and that's just me..
Its not just the Dockheads in 50+ftrs make what we regard as a simple crossing..
Cue the 'Silly Bugga's' comments..

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

One gap in my knowledge, and question which I have, is whether, when crossing a TSS, you are expected to continue on a strict perpendicular heading through the separation zone, as well as the lanes. Anyone have any knowledge on this subject?

I have always assumed that you must not cross a traffic land and then sail parallel to the lanes in the separation zone, but that you may abandon a strict perpendicular heading in order to get into a better position in relation to your destination for crossing the next lane.

What Cockcroft thinks....


The first sentence of paragraph (e) was amended in 1981 to incor-
porate vessels joining or leaving a lane.
A vessel crossing a separation zone which is also crossing the traffic
lanes should cross as nearly as practicable at right angles to the gen-
eral direction of traffic flow. However, a vessel crossing a zone in the
process of joining or leaving a lane from either side must comply
with paragraph (b)(iii).



And not fishing against the flow of the traffic seem to be optional for some fishing boats

[conachair]

Originally Posted by boatman61

True enough Ann.. however many boats crossing the channel to France do not have AIS.. sizes of boats doing the 60-80nm crossing vary from 21ft upwards.. and that's just me..
Its not just the Dockheads in 50+ftrs make what we regard as a simple crossing..
Cue the 'Silly Bugga's' comments..

One benefit of ais is seeing how many ships often tweak their heading to give a CPA of almost exactly 1Nm.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by conachair

One benefit of ais is seeing how many ships often tweak their heading to give a CPA of almost exactly 1Nm.

So is the benefit of a guardrail..

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

By "reciprocal" -- do you mean parallel? Never seen a TSS where the lanes were not parallel.

Strait of Juan de Fuca is one I'm familiar with: Chart 18465

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

when someone calls another "stupid" by saying, "you can't fix stupid."

If you read that in context, it was not actually directed at anyone in particular - it was a general reflection that there are some here that dogmatically hold to the belief that they know everything. The rest of the post may have been snidely directed at one individual, but you must admit, he brought that on himself by taking a shot at me. Sorry for the confusion.

Do you honestly track the AIS course info on vessels 10 NM away? Enough to notice a minor course correction?

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by IntoMyHealth

Thinking ahead about some trips next year I have seen the term, "Traffic Separation Zone" designated on some of the legs (usually around more congested areas) of my routes. At least that's what they're called in Navionics. Traffic Separation Schemes appears to be the official term, maybe I'm wrong. I'd appreciate input on these areas, what they mean, and how they play out in practice to cruisers.

As you've been able to gather from most of the posts, if you MUST cross traffic lanes and separation zones you should do so at 90* or perpendicular to the lanes. The only thing I will add is that you should call the Vessel Traffic Service that is monitoring the traffic scheme you are near PRIOR to making your move. If you are unsure which vhf channel they operate on, you can call CG on CH 16 and they will tell you. Tell VTS that you are a non-participating vessel and what your intentions are. The VTS operator will ask you your position, course and speed and try to identify you on radar (if you have AIS that will help them). From there, he/she will assist you in making a safe crossing. It may require that you have wait for a favorable time, but it will be better for all concerned.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by Nightsky

As you've been able to gather from most of the posts, if you MUST cross traffic lanes and separation zones you should do so at 90* or perpendicular to the lanes. The only thing I will add is that you should call the Vessel Traffic Service that is monitoring the traffic scheme you are near PRIOR to making your move. If you are unsure which vhf channel they operate on, you can call CG on CH 16 and they will tell you. Tell VTS that you are a non-participating vessel and what your intentions are. The VTS operator will ask you your position, course and speed and try to identify you on radar (if you have AIS that will help them). From there, he/she will assist you in making a safe crossing. It may require that you have wait for a favorable time, but it will be better for all concerned.

Who are you calling?? Non participating? you are in the TSS and that means you are participating. You go around the end of the Crimea you will participate regardless. My gosh you are in and around them so you are participating. Not sure what VTS you are calling but the only ones we have run into are at ports and they are port control and in a bunch of cases they directed us into the TSS going so far as to give us coordinates to follow.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Nightsky

The only thing I will add is that you should call the Vessel Traffic Service that is monitoring the traffic scheme you are near PRIOR to making your move.

That is a very good suggestion. Personally, I think it's a good idea to participate in VTS as a matter of keeping a good lookout by all means, but using "traffic" to promote a safe crossing of a TSS is definitely recommended.

[justwaiting]

For the OP.

Nice plain English guide with some animation.

Traffic Separation

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

If you read that in context, it was not actually directed at anyone in particular - it was a general reflection that there are some here that dogmatically hold to the belief that they know everything. The rest of the post may have been snidely directed at one individual, but you must admit, he brought that on himself by taking a shot at me. Sorry for the confusion.

Do you honestly track the AIS course info on vessels 10 NM away? Enough to notice a minor course correction?

Funny you should say that..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Strait of Juan de Fuca is one I'm familiar with: Chart 18465

Interesting; thanks! Learn something every day.

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by chuckr

Who are you calling?? Non participating? you are in the TSS and that means you are participating. You go around the end of the Crimea you will participate regardless. My gosh you are in and around them so you are participating. Not sure what VTS you are calling but the only ones we have run into are at ports and they are port control and in a bunch of cases they directed us into the TSS going so far as to give us coordinates to follow.

Non-participating vessels are motor driven vessels less than 20m and sailing vessels that are not required to check in with VTS. That is not to say that they can't participate if they want to.

[JPA Cate]

@Lodesman,

Not exactly, because what i do is just a glance to keep track of what I want to know, most of my watch energy is spent with looking at our surrounds. However, when you bring up the ship, our AIS shows [among other data] turning degrees, usually it is 0, so any other reading than 0 is useful. This is all available at a glance, along with their course and bearing, time to closest point of approach, distance at CPA, and so on. Just keep track.

As boatie says, of course, not everybody has AIS, but it is a clue as to what the ships are doing, and we need to bear in mind that even ships' electronics can go down as well, heard one requesting a fix to an AIS one time.

Ann

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

@Lodesman,

Not exactly, because what i do is just a glance to keep track of what I want to know, most of my watch energy is spent with looking at our surrounds. However, when you bring up the ship, our AIS shows [among other data] turning degrees, usually it is 0, so any other reading than 0 is useful. This is all available at a glance, along with their course and bearing, time to closest point of approach, distance at CPA, and so on. Just keep track.

As boatie says, of course, not everybody has AIS, but it is a clue as to what the ships are doing, and we need to bear in mind that even ships' electronics can go down as well, heard one requesting a fix to an AIS one time.

Ann

Aye fair enough. I think what you call turning degrees is turn rate - and is read in degrees per minute. It probably wouldn't register on a very small course correction.