Vendee Globe - the Real Race

[sabray]

More eyes will up the chance of seeing something we all agree. . Hitting a lost buoy at night 500 miles off brazil is just bad mojo.maybe some one would have seen it but just as likely not.sounds like vincent was not asleep. So the watch was being maintained. Other boat hit something below surface. Other 2 collisions with more crew could have been avoided I guess.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Doubt it.

Can't see any relationship between the number of crew and hitting objects or not.

But I do think it adds to the thread of 'amount of floating rubbish in the oceans'.

b.

Well rubbish and debris is one thing but, hitting a metal bouy? Someone was not keeping watch or not paying attention to either his charts or more likely their GPS chartplotter. It always amazes/scares me how in that big wide ocean boats will hit something (including ships and islands) or something hits them (whales) which ends voyages prematurely. Racing seems to increase the odds in Neptunes favor too.

[sabray]

It was a loose/adrift marker not charted not expected. Not unusual off shore out of shipping channels to ease back on the level of observation . Coastal I can spot nets and floats at night because I am constantly looking. Offshore I'm not looking or spending my energy trying to spot a lost floatie. Running into a trawler is another thing.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by MysticGringo

Really? Even given the fact that two of the boats hit other boats while the entire crew was asleep? If you have 4 people it's not likely the whole crew would be asleep at same time, and that's 6 more eyes.

Really.

You may be making assumptions:

- that they hit, rather than get hit,

- that more eyes implies better watch.

Example: we have sailed just the two of us with one always in the cockpit. Most of our cruising friends sailed spending perhaps 90% of their watch time down below - giving just a quick look around every 5 or 10 minutes. In fact, at least two of well crewed boats we know set up all alarms and turned in.

There is no safety in numbers. Solo racers are a special breed, I would think we cannot apply their ways, attitudes and accidents to the cruising crowd.

b.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by sabray

It was a loose/adrift marker not charted not expected. Not unusual off shore out of shipping channels to ease back on the level of observation . Coastal I can spot nets and floats at night because I am constantly looking. Offshore I'm not looking or spending my energy trying to spot a lost floatie. Running into a trawler is another thing.

I see. Well, with a wayward buoy I can see that could happen. Still I always wonder what the odds of hitting something like that buoy in that big ocean are? Just amazingly bad luck for that sailor.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by mbianka

I see. Well, with a wayward buoy I can see that could happen. Still I always wonder what the odds of hitting something like that buoy in that big ocean are? Just amazingly bad luck for that sailor.

From our observations there are huge amounts of debris (some of very serious size) floating around. N Atlantic (passage from West Indies to the Azores) and Indian (past Christmas) seemed worst to me. Also plenty of horrible and horrifying objects in the Coral Sea (passage N Cal to Aus).

I think hitting is more the issue of when and how badly rather than if.

b.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

From our observations there are huge amounts of debris (some of very serious size) floating around. N Atlantic (passage from West Indies to the Azores) and Indian (past Christmas) seemed worst to me. Also plenty of horrible and horrifying objects in the Coral Sea (passage N Cal to Aus).

I think hitting is more the issue of when and how badly rather than if.

b.

I can believe that. I was relaxing on the beach on eastern Long Island a few years ago when this rolled out of the surf:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: ADRIFT
I often wondered what stories it could tell about it's journey in the Atlantic.
I wonder if the debris collision risk will increase for Vendee Globe participants when get into the Pacific because of the Tsunami debris from Japan?

[MysticGringo]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Really.

You may be making assumptions:

- that they hit, rather than get hit,

- that more eyes implies better watch.

Example: we have sailed just the two of us with one always in the cockpit. Most of our cruising friends sailed spending perhaps 90% of their watch time down below - giving just a quick look around every 5 or 10 minutes. In fact, at least two of well crewed boats we know set up all alarms and turned in.

There is no safety in numbers. Solo racers are a special breed, I would think we cannot apply their ways, attitudes and accidents to the cruising crowd.

b.

Who hit who is sort of irrelevant. If the boats had been seen, then they could have been avoided.

More eyes naturally implies better watch keeping ability. Not necessarily that a better watch would happen, because as you aptly point out, those other eyes could still be just as negligent in their patterns by choosing to sleep at the same time.

I find it strange that someone would argue that a single handed sailor can keep the same watch as a boat with 10 crew members, and thus increasing their ability to avoid objects.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by mbianka

(...) I wonder if the debris collision risk will increase for Vendee Globe participants when get into the Pacific because of the Tsunami debris from Japan?

Methinks (???) the N and S gyres in the Pacific may exchange little, if any debris, then the S Ocean has its own circulation running mostly W round the Antarctic. So my guess is the Tsunami debris will not play any role.

b.

[DeepFrz]

So my guess is the Tsunami debris will not play any role.

I suppose you mean the Japanese Tsunami. But remember there have been other Tsunamis in the past few years, many in the southern oceans. One generated by the huge earthquake in Chili a few years ago sent a lot of debris into the south Pacific. And the big one in the Indian Ocean. The one that was so destructive in Pago Pago. I'm sure that there are a lot more 1/2 submerged bouys floating around out there. And you forgot Mark Guillemot who may have struck a submerged object in the Bay of Biscay causing his keel to break (that hasn't been confirmed yet to my knowledge).

At the start of the last Vendee Globe there was an almost completely submerged container floating just off the coast of Le Sables d'Olonne.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by MysticGringo

Who hit who is sort of irrelevant. If the boats had been seen, then they could have been avoided.

More eyes naturally implies better watch keeping ability. Not necessarily that a better watch would happen, because as you aptly point out, those other eyes could still be just as negligent in their patterns by choosing to sleep at the same time.

I find it strange that someone would argue that a single handed sailor can keep the same watch as a boat with 10 crew members, and thus increasing their ability to avoid objects.

Yes. There is more than one way to see things: our vision is related to our position, past experiences and the theories that we like, for social or otherwise reasons, to justify (and, often, impose upon others).

But it is a single handed race and so the sailors have little choice unless they resolve to stay at home. So to say, 'drive hard, or stay at home'.

About the only time I have heard of any boat, single handed or crewed, to actually see the object prior to colliding with one was when the boat, as said earlier in this sentence ;-), collided with one. And it was a fully, PROFESSIONALLY, crewed 60 footer. So they saw the whale, the driver did all he could and then they needed a tow into Neiafu.

It is great luck and a blessing if we do see the object and if we happen to dodge it. But whether there is any actual relationship between the number of eyes onboard and the chances that these eyes are looking at the right time in the right direction remains (IMHO and with all respect to other takes) unknown.

Cheers,
b.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes. There is more than one way to see things: our vision is related to our position, past experiences and the theories that we like, for social or otherwise reasons, to justify (and, often, impose upon others).

But it is a single handed race and so the sailors have little choice unless they resolve to stay at home. So to say, 'drive hard, or stay at home'.

About the only time I have heard of any boat, single handed or crewed, to actually see the object prior to colliding with one was when the boat, as said earlier in this sentence ;-), collided with one. And it was a fully, PROFESSIONALLY, crewed 60 footer. So they saw the whale, the driver did all he could and then they needed a tow into Neiafu.

It is great luck and a blessing if we do see the object and if we happen to dodge it. But whether there is any actual relationship between the number of eyes onboard and the chances that these eyes are looking at the right time in the right direction remains (IMHO and with all respect to other takes) unknown.

Cheers,
b.

The more I hear about this race and the mishaps that have occurred so far The title of the book "Voyage for Mad Men" comes to mind. I would add mad women too! Though the one woman dropped out after being demasted early in the race. I can understand that staring at the ocean for days and weeks at a time would get tedious and trying for these racers while trying to keep an eye out for objects. But, it seems like what they are essentially doing is getting in an ocean going car setting the cruise control then going below and texting/staring at screens and/or fixing whatever gets broken and hoping they don't hit something in the meantime and if they do hope they can fix the damage when they do. It will be interesting to see how many actually make it back across the finish line. It's got to be a rare breed of people that want to do this race.

[sabray]

Another good read is the race by Tim Zimmerman. Not about solo mono around the world but a the multihull crewed race. Crazy stuff.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by mbianka

(...) It's got to be a rare breed of people that want to do this race.

I too think so.

VG is the toughest single handed ocean race, sailed in the most extreme boats and in the most extreme conditions. I bet it does require strong personality to get to the finish line.

I think I know a couple of people who 'want to to do' this race and I know there is a huge gap between 'wanting' and actually being capable of!

b.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by mbianka

......
It's got to be a rare breed of people that want to do this race.

Interestingly and surprisingly to me, many seeking this challenge actually admit to having no great love of sailing. It is the challenge they are rising to. Also its a sport "not carried out against the elements, but because of them". So yes, these competitors are a rare breed!