2nm vs 3nm Navigation Lights

[gs41escapade]

Many 2NM rated LED lights would actually meet the 3NM requirements, just not tested for such as the testing is expensive.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by davil

Is IP55 fully waterproof?
This rating has limited protection from dust and water, making it an option for indoor and outdoor uses. However, products with an IP55 rating are not waterproof.Jul 7, 2023

What is IP67 waterproof mean?
That said, if you want a device that can be submerged in water (when you swim or when you're at the beach, for example) you'll want a product with an IP67 or IP68 rating. “With IP67, devices are considered water-resistant up to a depth of about 3 feet for up to 30 minutes,” says Kelso.Aug 14, 2023

IP ratings are, as a rule, meaningless, because the manufacturer can put any IP rating they want on any device. There's no trademark, no law that says you can't sell an IP67 device that isn't usefully waterproof. I have had purportedly IP67 devices that failed after exposure to rain. Some IP55 devices are more waterproof than some IP67 devices.


So I'm not sure that it matters much. If it's a good quality navigation light from a reputable maker, it will work out fine regardless of what IP rating it has.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

Hi All!
But, it just seems wrong for offshore sailing.


Any opinions?

Offshore, where you might only see a ship once or twice a week, imho top of the list is doing whatever is realistic (ie in budget ) to make sure you get seen long before the lights will. Which basically means AIS transmit & a very good radar return. Many times I've watched a ship on AIS do a big dogleg to give me more searoom before the ship even appears over the horizon. Steel boat so very good radar return.
Bright nav lights are certainly something to aspire to and a "good thing!!" but offshore imho any avoidance should have happened long before any lights get seen.

[gs41escapade]

It is true that the IP ratings are self-reported by the manufacturer. Several of my commercial clients do insist on proof of testing and data to back it up, but there is no independent testing requirement.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

Question is....is it worth it to go with 3nm rate lights vs 2nm rated lights?

200% it is!!!! Get the biggest watt LED ones you can find. In fact if it comes with a 3 mile LED "20 watt" bulb replace it with a "40 watt" LED!

BE SEEN

What I learned in my recent near head on collision at night is just how fast, and how short, the closing the time is to BANG/POW/BOOM!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

200% it is!!!! Get the biggest watt LED ones you can find. In fact if it comes with a 3 mile LED "20 watt" bulb replace it with a "40 watt" LED!

BE SEEN

What I learned in my recent near head on collision at night is just how fast, and how short, the closing the time is to BANG/POW/BOOM!

Your conclusions from those events are not the same as my conclusions. A fact to consider is that doubling the wattage of an LED, all else being equal, only increases the visible range by 41%. But lights are of no use when there is no one watching for them.


The main conclusion that I draw from your collision is that radar is vitally important while running at night. It is singular and unique among the various means of collision avoidance at night in that it is effective regardless of how the other vessel is equipped or operated, or whether the other vessel keeps an effective watch.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The main conclusion that I draw from your collision is that radar is vitally important while running at night. It is singular and unique among the various means of collision avoidance at night in that it is effective regardless of how the other vessel is equipped or operated, or whether the other vessel keeps an effective watch.

The FV said they had radar on.

[Kettlewell]

I doubt most commercial vessels ever see sailboats before they are picked up on radar. Offshore they are mostly relying on instruments, and there is way too much light on those bridges for them to see anything out the ports. Sure, other sailing craft and small vessels might see your lights at night, but almost everything you have to worry about relies on radar and AIS first. Forget deck lights offshore. The only light they will see in time would be at the masthead.

[rslifkin]

I look at it as additive. Good lights (both bright enough and physically large enough in addition to meeting the rest of the requirements) make a big difference in how easily you see them or how hard they are to miss. They're far from the only important layer, but it's something that's inadequate on many boats and generally easy to improve. In some conditions lights may not be visible until closer than you'd want to get, but having a 1/2 mile of warning that something has been missed is still much better than a 1/4 mile.

If you've got good lights and are transmitting AIS you've given the other guy a better shot of knowing you're there. If you're receiving AIS and running radar, you've increased your chance of knowing about the other guy.

[sailorboy1]

never mind, just get the 1 mile lights

[RyanJade]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

Hi All!


Question is....is it worth it to go with 3nm rate lights vs 2nm rated lights? We do a decent amount of off shore sailing, and 2nm seems very short.

The rating for a 2nm boat is something like boats under 65ft in length, and we are a 44ft catamaran, so that should be sufficient. But, it just seems wrong for offshore sailing.

I know I'm a little late to this thread, however, I didn't see a clearly correct response to your question.

You are a 44 ft sailboat, which means you are longer than 12 Meters.

Therefore, you are required to have brighter lights.

Your masthead light must be at least 3nm, while your side lights only need to be 2nm

Therefore, your anchor light should be 3nm, and I would also make your tricolor 3nm too (if you have one).

Minimum Visibility Range

• Boats less than 12m (39.4'), sidelights must be visible for at least 1nm. All other lights must be visible for at least 2nm.
• Boats less than 20m (65.7'), a masthead light must be visible for 3nm. All other lights must be visible for 2nm.
• Boat over 20m (65.7') and less than 50m (164') must display a masthead light visible for 5nm. All other lights must be visible for 2nm.

--- https://www.westmarine.com/west-advi...ght-Rules.html

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by RyanJade

I know I'm a little late to this thread, however, I didn't see a clearly correct response to your question.

You are a 44 ft sailboat, which means you are longer than 12 Meters.

Therefore, you are required to have brighter lights.

Your masthead light must be at least 3nm, while your side lights only need to be 2nm

Therefore, your anchor light should be 3nm, and I would also make your tricolor 3nm too (if you have one).

"Masthead Light" is the steaming light that is usually about the spreader level. The tricolor and anchor lights, while physically at the top of the mast, are not masthead lights, and only need to be 2nm.

Rule 21 - Definitions. (a) “Masthead light” means a white light placed over the fore and aft centreline of the vessel showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 225 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on either side of the vessel.