Alternative Protection Ideas

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Xen

So you have never had any problems while sailing? . . . So I am clueless as to how often pirates or general crooks attack or whatnot.
. . . Maybe it is different on the international waters. Is it common practice to board other peoples boats?
. . . What is proper etiquette on open water I am not familiar.

Sorry for sequential posts, The 30 minute limit passed. But to set the perspective on problems with thieves, etc. Statistically, encounters are very few and far between. In 10 years in the Caribbean I have never even come close to any situation requiring active defensive procedures including firearms. IMHO what is happening is that reporting and communications has greatly advanced so that incidents that would have never been reported due to lack of anyplace to report them are now being reported and published. This is good as you can then spot and identify areas of a highly likely "encounter" happening and just not go there. If you do chose to go "there" then you can at least take some precautionary steps to minimize the probability of an encounter. The folks who get "hit" (have an encounter) are normally either traveling to places even fools fear to tread or are too complacent because nothing has ever happened to them so far. I have a lot of friends who have been hit that are in the later category and their lament is always - I know I shouldn't have done that / gone there - but went anyway. They blame themselves almost as much as the "bad guys."
- - As to boarding folks boats without asking, the "stories" are primarily for humorous intent, not real occurrences. You DO NOT climb onto anybody's boat without an invitation - unless - there is an emergency requiring your action or assistence. Examples being a boat dragging anchor or sinking, or in peril of serious damage unless somebody does something. It is quite common amongst actual cruisers to come to the assistance of each other's boats in such "emergency" circumstances when the owner is not on board. You would I assume want somebody to "save" your boat while you are ashore shopping,
etc.
- - Our boats are our homes and regard them as our floating private "castles" (regardless of the reality of maritime/national laws to the contrary). And you just might encounter naked people since the heat normally encourages us to go "au naturel" when in the privacy of our boat. Considering what I look like without clothes, the sight of which may be more hazardous to your health than somebody shooting at you.
- - In open waters it is rare to the extreme to encounter any problems - the exceptions being in known high pirate activity areas which are easily identified by reports.

[Fishman_Tx]

I think we're going the way of all the other armed vs unarmed threads. I think a lot of you miss the boat on some things, but others are beginning to sound like nut-jobs. If I'm armed, you would never know it unless you were doing something bad to or on my boat. If your armed and paranoid like I hear from others here and in other threads, your a danger to everyone including yourself.

Reality? The world is what it is. It is not perception, as "perception" is not based in reality. Reality is independent of the individual.

Bad people do bad things to others out there. The world is not 100% safe. Where sovreignty exists, rules abound. THAT is reality. If your that arrogant to think you can go anywhere and do as you please and Not suffer the consequences, you deserve e v e r y t h i n g you get. Nations have rules. Wanna pack heat? Get the permits. Don't think you need them? See you in 15-20 years (maybe), unless your successful enough in hiding them.

I myself pack. I don't agree with the rules in countries that force me to turn in my gun, but that doesn't mean I ignore the law. Look what happened to Panamajames and he was following their requirements.

As for pirates, burglars, and the like? Who's to say they'll let you live afterwards?
Better to get it on your feet.....than on your knees.
**** happens, that's reality.

Nuttin' but love fer ya'll!!

[boatman61]

Hey Fishman... gotta have the odd 'Paranoid' post now n then.. lets you know who the realists are...lmao.
As you say its 50/50 if you get out alive... if you fire on them from a GRP boat they can riddle the boat and still have time to strip it before it goes down with the bodies.. steel boat.. maybe you have a chance with return fire.
Most of these guys are off their heads on Kif or some other form of narcotic, and it doesn't take a lot to tick them off... lifes dirt cheap... so short of anti tank rockets your stuffed..
but the Rambo Fantasy is good fun

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Xen

So you have never had any problems while sailing? Honestly I like to shot its fun, but if the danger is so low that the hassle of it all outweighs the purpose then I wouldn't have a problem with just having a few knives.I am going from the perspective of a few people and not from personal experience. So I am clueless as to how often pirates or general crooks attack or whatnot.The intent was really to find out and it turned into some sort of sidestepped legal debate.
Also think its wise to do the xmas light deal,maybe I am too accustom to defending my home on land. I know I am not boarded at all while in local waters unless I request it. Maybe it is different on the international waters. Is it common practice to board other peoples boats? I don't want to be rude or seem aggressive if someone means me no harm. What is proper etiquette on open water I am not familiar.

I don't think you should go sailing mate... don't even waste money buying a boat... your mentality is totally wrong for this game.
Your not on the Starship Enterprise boldly going where no mans gone before..
the reality is everyones gone there before(Metaphorically speaking).. your just as likely to get mugged and killed 50yds from home as you are out there on your boat...
If your local area has you scared enough to be armed to the teeth then your gonna get no sleep at all on a boat.. stay at home.. at least you can build a reasonable bunker

On second thoughts.. become a Pirate.. They LOVE to shoot..

[Fishman_Tx]

"paranoid now and then..."
True that! Where would would be the fun then, right?
"Firing from GRP..." depends on what your firing and you available rate of fire.
Rambo? Hardly...
But I'm not going easy.

My point was..
To each their own, within there own moral boundries and each according to their courage. But just don't be fooled by the blue skys and calm seas. There may have been a red sky this morning........

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx

"paranoid now and then..."
True that! Where would would be the fun then, right?
"Firing from GRP..." depends on what your firing and you available rate of fire.
Rambo? Hardly...
But I'm not going easy.

My point was..
To each their own, within there own moral boundries and each according to their courage. But just don't be fooled by the blue skys and calm seas. There may have been a red sky this morning........

Depends on what you can get away with carrying and how accurate you are as one on a rolling sailboat against 4 or 5 on a possibly more stable platform. Guns have a tendency to make people think they're bigger than they really are...
I was raised with guns and served my time in the forces (sharpshooter) but I would not consider a gun on board.. its done few cruisers any good.. more often than not its got them killed.. bit like the amateur on the street with knives.
But.. as you say each according to their courage..

[Mariness]

Originally Posted by Xen

oint and purpose was/is to figure out the logic. I wonder when humans lost their personal sovereignty. One thing is always going to be true, if you don't know your rights, you have none.

To each their own, within there own moral boundries and each according to their courage.

We lost our personal sovereignty when the first monkey looked at the second monkey and said "Wouldn't this all be easier if we lived and worked together?" And it spread, one might even say evolved, from there to create a whole civilization.
It's called a Social Contract and is the fundamental concept behind all governments. The specific rules vary, but all human societies have one, as do all other social animals.
By virtue of having contact with others of the species, you have implicitly agreed to abide by the social contract. People who don't want to often move to communes (where they still have a social contract, albeit a different one) and isolate themselves utterly from everyone else. No contact at all is the only way it works if you don't want to follow the agreed-upon rules.

[MoonlightSailor]

Both having military experience, my dad and I came across a military issue gas mask. Pop a few tear gas bombs and dawn the mask to keep them out while you prepare to defend yourself or radio for help! Sure would catch them off guard and scrambling for some fresh air! Food for thought. Why not go ahead and activate the epirb too?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Its a great idea however theres some practical difficulties the movies don't show you.

Drop a full wine bottle on stone and see what happens. Unless thrown very hard it wont break.

Thats me stuffed... I buy the 5litre cardboard cartons....

[Fishman_Tx]

boatman:
Gotta buy in bulk for the long passages.

moonlight:
Me too.
Tear gas in that form would be great if we could get away with carrying it. I think it's only available (canister form) to law enforcement and military. I'll have to check into that, but I suspect it's a non-starter. EPIRB: yup I would have everything screamin' bloody murder. SPOT, epirb, etc...

Mariness:
ditto

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by sarafina

uhh... not a word in there about admiration or fear...

I both admire and fear you

[scottsquared]

Does anyone have a good source for how to establish the permit process, registration, documentation, etc? Issues with registration of "long-guns" there is no such registry nor requirement where I live, California,that I know of. Hand gun inherited. How do you register it? No problem with declaring firearms, turning over to authorities where required. Just don't want to run into issues with the firearm's provenance.

[mintyspilot]

Many years ago I was taught the second method in the art of self defense. The instructor lined us up and then screamed "Run" at us. Eventually, after a few goes, we were off like sprinters. He then revealed that running away as fast as you could was the second best method of self defense. You kept your skin whole and got out of trouble.

Does anyone want to guess what the "first rule of self defense" was? It's already been mentioned several times in this thread.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by scottsquared

Does anyone have a good source for how to establish the permit process, registration, documentation, etc? Issues with registration of "long-guns" there is no such registry nor requirement where I live, California,that I know of. Hand gun inherited. How do you register it? No problem with declaring firearms, turning over to authorities where required. Just don't want to run into issues with the firearm's provenance.

I think you'll find that a US national gun licence would be mandatory stating your sanity and a recognised standard of proficiency... same in most countries... depending on your flag.. and proof of legal ownership.
Then its down to individual countries you visit.
The majority will insist you have a gun safe on board, which the customs will seal on entry.. if found to be tampered with on departure you gotta have a damn good reason... or, alternativly they'll seize it for the duration.
In the UK if you have a Very Pistol you can be charged with having an offensive weapon... may seem silly but.. its a gun.

[Fishman_Tx]

Gord May has that link for noonsite.com and it's in other "gun" threads. Thats where you'll find info by country on requirements and regs.

Here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ntry-1641.html