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Panamajames · 04-09-2009, 20:58

Sorry I got a little carried away. Most people are very good people in these countries. The bad people are very bad. I do not advocate shooting thieves.
Just defending yourself and your love ones.

I love Latin people and Central America. I just want everyone to know it is not perfect. It is almost perfect for me as that is why I live in Panama.

I have seen the bad first hand and was deeply moved by the slayings in Rio Dulce and Venezula and Brasil and Burma. I just want people to be safe and be ready to protect their love ones and themselves in the worse case scenario.

Guns are everyone's choice and they should be declared.. Bad guys and I don't mean poor people necessarily cause they would give you the shirt off their back.
Because of drugs and poverty and dictators and killing murder in these third world countries has gotten out of hand. USA too.

Just be safe.. I love life and the sea and the many people who surround it.

Panamajames

ColdFusion · 05-09-2009, 02:03

I would never carry a gun onboard, even if I could (I am currently in the UK). Finding myself in a situation where I would want to use a gun would mean that any attackers/pirates would be armed too. Chances are there would be several of them, and it's not unknown for them to have AK47s and such weaponry. Drawing a pistol or rifle on them will instantly escalate the situation and almost certainly lead to shots being fired. One example of this was the loss of Sir Peter Blake, who pulled a gun on a group of attackers who boarded his boat. They shot and killed him. There have been other examples.

If someone pulls a gun on me I believe the best way to stay alive is to do what I am told and try to stay calm. Wallets and possessions can be replaced. My life, and the lives of loved ones and crew, are much more precious and cannot be replaced. I would rather be robbed but escape with my life than pull a gun and increase the chances that I/we would come to (further) harm.

Panamajames · 05-09-2009, 04:56

My advice is to yes do as you are told. You can not win a fire fight with several guys. I believe most of these people are not armed except with knifes and machetes or nothing at all. Several people have been killed with the so called
"superiority complex" Get the F off my boat. If you confront them with a shotgun ready to go then they will turn away. Or even a shot fired into the air.
Every situation is different and every bad guy has different intention. All I am saying is a gun is a deterent and must be used only in specific situations. What I am also saying is to have a plan when someone climbs on your boat at night or without permission. The last thing you want to do is kill someone. Every situation is so different. Use your best judgement, have a plan and pray for the best.

Most people approaching your boat will be friendlies. Just do not let them on your boat. You need to know their intentions

Several weeks in Panama at Puerto Amarellas (spelling) a multi million dollar yacht came in to port. That night one of the crew fired off a machine gun.
Later the police boarded and asked them. Ok turn over the gun (none was declared) It is a felony to have automatic weapon in Panama I believe even with a declaration. I have not heard the end of the story but they or he are in big big trouble. So ALWAYS DECLARE YOUR WEAPONS and do not carry automatic weapons period.

blubaju · 28-09-2009, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by yardpro

if you really think that that fragile little screen will keep out a criminal that intends to rob and harm you then you are totally deluded..

I have yet to see a sailboat hatch and door that could not be easially opened with a simple hammer and crow bar.

Got some similar, making it much more solid is useless on many boats, like on my Balsa/honeycomb catamaran, but the average little thief that sneaks in at night has little chance to surprise you while sleeping, it makes a little noise to break it. And needed a frame for the mosquito net anyway ;-)

Jim St.Pierre · 28-09-2009, 19:15

Leaving for the Bahammas in about two weeks, thought about bringing a few firearms on board as some of you have, I am a Nam Vet and I DO know how to use a firearm, and wouldn't for a second flinch..........That being said, I think "not" about bringing a firearm. First off, if it is some punk kid or bum trying to rip off my boat for food, booze or electronics, he best hope I am not on board. I don't need a firearm to take care of that business. Second off, ( I might be getting older thinking of this) I think the idea of a 25mm flare gun is a hoot, even a 12 gauge. Can you imagin this; a boat with a few pirates in it , pull along side and you KNOW they aren't the neighborhood care givers. You come out with a flare gun and they laugh, you fire the flare in the boat and then toss in a moltof cocktail after........That would keep um busy for awhile. The only problem with all this.............If these guys are really pirates and want your boat.....HELLOOOOOO thay ain't coming with pee shooters. That will have AK 47's at least. A pistol or a shotgun won't do much. Oh sure you might get one or maybe even two.......but the last one will get you and what ever else they want. I have always "carried" but this is state side, not a forien country. oh yeah and I am licensed as well.. I guess my point here is, if the real pirate wants you , you don't have much of a chance, unless you were or are military trained and then thats not a guarentee. I have decided not to bring any firearms and try to sail in safe ports. Good luck to all, that persue the crusing life. God bless............ Jim

Chief Engineer · 28-09-2009, 19:28

a muerto ad nauseaum

osirissail · 28-09-2009, 20:01

Just a short comment on the Caribbean - there are two islands where simple possession of a firearm is a crime. You may have all the licenses required from back home but they are not recognized on these islands - you must have a local license and only locals can get licenses - catch 22. So you have to hide your weapons and hope the local officials never find them. It is also incredibly rare that these island officials will ever look at your boat unless you get involved in something that draws attention to yourself. So, bottom line, if you chose to "carry" be prepared to hide your weapons very effectively.
- - Only other thing is a weapon on your boat is NOT a deterent to any of the current thieves and pirates. It is an active defense of your life weapon and you need to be able to return deadly fire instantly. Hesitate and you are most probably fish food.

MarkJ · 28-09-2009, 22:40

I don't get into these gun threads... but I just wanted to list the weapons confiscated from a pirate boat off somalia the other day. Now this is NOT the mother ship. Its just ONE of the small boats sent in first:

One rocket-propelled grenade launcher,

And....
six AK47 assault rifles

And.........

One G3 assault rifle

a large quantity of ammunition

Who here really thinks their flare gun, shot gun or anything else they may have abord is going to match that?

AFP: Australian navy thwarts Somali pirates: officials

Hurricane Harry · 28-09-2009, 23:17

If you are to carry a gun you need to shoot 1st./ Harry

hoppy · 28-09-2009, 23:50

That's it, this thread has helped me decide which boat I should get and would feel safe sailing the world.

Anyone want to go in partnership with me and buy this boat? Grand Turk, Replica Frigate for sale

Somali pirates, no problem

goboatingnow · 29-09-2009, 13:40

You know I 'd dont normally reply to this stupid threads about guns, But let me sum up

(a) Its my right to bear arms,. irespective of you foreign types and your laws and my rights are valid anywhere on the planet. ( I once saw a US military cargo ship openly violate Spainiah VHF rules while sitting in a Cartagena Bay in Spainish, so its goes to the top guys

(b) The whole world is full of nasty people out to kill me ( oh amd rape my wife). I know this as I saw if on Fox news. and look at those Somalian pirates, hez just where is Somalia anyway, is that near cuba.

(c) SHoot everyone that boards my yacht unannounced ( ohh and then run away). Thats good advice when say French drugs and customs guys board you "unannounced and you shoot them, and run away to be chased by a Frigate and see the inside of a jail for a very very long time , yeah good advice, kill the poor guy thats looking for food , ciggies, etc. ( have you ever ever actually sailed outside the US , and no the US VI doesnt count, ever had a couple of rough sailors come over because they were curious, wanted to trade for ciggies, or just to throw you a fish or too, ) yep blaze away there

(d) I can protect myself and my children/wife/dog, delete as appropriate, sure your a match for 4 or 5 guys with AK 47s who have spend every year since birth shooting and been shoot at. , sure you can beat them, you watched all the Die hard moves didnt ya. There its easy

(e) Some where , foreign, at least least one person got shot/raped by somebody, sure I read it in a blog/CNN/forum. So all countries are full of crazed loonies out to kill/rape me.

(f) if you shoot at people you will scare them away. ( ie the reasoning that theres not much pirates in US waters, mind you ther arnt any in UK, EU Scandivian, Med waters generally either and there the citizens dont "bear" arms.). Shoot at people may scare them , but must likely if they mean harm they will fire back, hard to defend yourself against an RPG. If they didnt meam any harm you've "scared" away what could be a rewarding meeting.

Firstly , guys read your constitution/history, The second amendment was primarily enacted to allow you to defend yourself from yourself, ie the fear of professional armies, the issue re militias etc, Not as a justification to blaze away in a foreign country. SO keep you guns as intended for use on US soil against anyone tryong to retake the US back. However the rest of the world has got over this issue and gets on reasonably peacefully without needing its citizens to look ( and act ) like rambo.

Please let loose the guns threads, I really beleive these people are trolls

PS ( yes I own guns , yes, I hunt blah blah, )

Red Mantis · 29-09-2009, 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You know I 'd dont normally reply to this stupid threads about guns, But let me sum up

(insulting, unfair "summary" intended to upset half the debate team)

Please let loose the guns threads, I really beleive these people are trolls.

The irony, it is delicious!