Close call between AC75 American Magic and Auckland harbour ferry

[SV Bacchus]

Originally Posted by StuM

Aaaaaaahhhhhhh!

Unfortunately it is never going to end.. This will always be the proverbial "uphill battle."

[fxykty]

It’s been established that Rule 13 “overtaking vessel keeps clear” applies in the videoed situation, therefore the AC75 was the give way vessel. And they did.

The only reason the ferry would be give way is if they were not being overtaken, in which case Rule 18 kicks in.

We only have a short snippet of video, but it certainly looks as if the ferry was being overtaken by the AC75 once they got close. The alleged words of the ferry captain and the super yacht captain boyfriend were in error.

I’ve been on the water and chased (in a 10m RHIB with twin 300hp outboards) the AC75s around the inner Hauraki Gulf. 40+ knots in very light winds is absolutely amazing.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by fxykty

It’s been established that Rule 13 “overtaking vessel keeps clear” applies in the videoed situation, therefore the AC75 was the give way vessel. And they did.

The only reason the ferry would be give way is if they were not being overtaken, in which case Rule 18 kicks in.

We only have a short snippet of video, but it certainly looks as if the ferry was being overtaken by the AC75 once they got close. The alleged words of the ferry captain and the super yacht captain boyfriend were in error.

I’ve been on the water and chased (in a 10m RHIB with twin 300hp outboards) the AC75s around the inner Hauraki Gulf. 40+ knots in very light winds is absolutely amazing.

Attachment 224065

From what I saw, the ferry changed course quite dramatically to starboard and in doing so, caused the sailing boat to instantly become the overtaking boat. I recall there being something in the rules about “stand on boat must maintain its course”, that may not be a Colregs rule. But then, the sailing boat was approaching the ferry from port so the ferry was in any case not required to give way, he was the stand-on vessel. One wonders why he did.

Be that as it may, the rule in the harbour is recreational gives way to commercial. The ferry is very obviously commercial, has a yellow flashing light on its roof and Mr Barker knows better than most who needs to give way.

And contrary to other suggestions, a sponsored racing boat (which accurately describes an AC-75) does not constitute a commercial vessel. Nobody pays a service-related fee to derive benefit from a sponsored racing boat.

Which actually raises and interesting point: What of old AC boats that carry fare-paying passengers on sailing trips around Auckland harbour? Do I have to yield to them when they’re approaching from my port side, maybe even on a port tack? I guess I do.

On a different note (hope it’s not a thread hijack), we are planning taking our boat down to Auckland to watch the racing from the water. Given your comments about a boat with 600hp to follow the boats, one wonders how much of the racing one will actually see from stationary water level. It may be better to watch on TV with all the hi-tech stuff it offers.

[contrail]

Leaving aside all the other regulations and exceptions, the fact that the AC boat was approaching from the left side did NOT make the ferry the stand-on vessel, as that regulation only applies when both vessels are under power.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

.................................................. ........................


On a different note (hope it’s not a thread hijack), we are planning taking our boat down to Auckland to watch the racing from the water. Given your comments about a boat with 600hp to follow the boats, one wonders how much of the racing one will actually see from stationary water level. It may be better to watch on TV with all the hi-tech stuff it offers.

I felt that way when they raced in SF Bay. Initially. I ended up being out on my boat for most of the races. From the water you just can't see tactics, they're going so fast. But it is way cool. They were doing the play by play on marine VHF, too. After the final race, I went between the B & C towers of the Bay bridge, figuring they'd go through A & B which is wider. Well, they didn't, and the whole gaggle of motorboats and the winning yacht AND ME, ended up getting to the bridge at the same time! The sailboat right there on the video is me. Talk about being in a washing machine. But it sure was fun. And no, they didn't offer me any champagne as they went by...

[StuM]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

I recall there being something in the rules about “stand on boat must maintain its course”, that may not be a Colregs rule. But then, the sailing boat was approaching the ferry from port so the ferry was in any case not required to give way, he was the stand-on vessel. One wonders why he did.

Suggest you re-read Rule 18 (a) (iv)

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I felt that way when they raced in SF Bay. Initially. I ended up being out on my boat for most of the races. From the water you just can't see tactics, they're going so fast. But it is way cool. They were doing the play by play on marine VHF, too. After the final race, I went between the B & C towers of the Bay bridge, figuring they'd go through A & B which is wider. Well, they didn't, and the whole gaggle of motorboats and the winning yacht AND ME, ended up getting to the bridge at the same time! The sailboat right there on the video is me. Talk about being in a washing machine. But it sure was fun. And no, they didn't offer me any champagne as they went by...

Being on the water and in the midst of the spectacle will be great. We plan on being out there on our boat and will only manoeuvre enough to get out of the way of other spectator boats as our 7 knots motoring speed won’t be much use in keeping up with the race boats. Unfortunately it will only be local boats as it’s very unlikely that super yachts will be able to come, let alone their owners and guests from abroad.

We plan on having a large screen on board and run Sky Go or whatever other internet source has the race broadcast. I must remember to invite someone on board who doesn’t care about the America’s Cup to drive our boat and keep a lookout. Talk about being distracted! Maybe we should just anchor?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

From what I saw, the ferry changed course quite dramatically to starboard and in doing so, caused the sailing boat to instantly become the overtaking boat. I recall there being something in the rules about “stand on boat must maintain its course”, that may not be a Colregs rule. But then, the sailing boat was approaching the ferry from port so the ferry was in any case not required to give way, he was the stand-on vessel. One wonders why he did.

Be that as it may, the rule in the harbour is recreational gives way to commercial. The ferry is very obviously commercial, has a yellow flashing light on its roof and Mr Barker knows better than most who needs to give way.

And contrary to other suggestions, a sponsored racing boat (which accurately describes an AC-75) does not constitute a commercial vessel. Nobody pays a service-related fee to derive benefit from a sponsored racing boat.

Which actually raises and interesting point: What of old AC boats that carry fare-paying passengers on sailing trips around Auckland harbour? Do I have to yield to them when they’re approaching from my port side, maybe even on a port tack? I guess I do.

On a different note (hope it’s not a thread hijack), we are planning taking our boat down to Auckland to watch the racing from the water. Given your comments about a boat with 600hp to follow the boats, one wonders how much of the racing one will actually see from stationary water level. It may be better to watch on TV with all the hi-tech stuff it offers.

Passenger does not give way to commercial, anywhere. Those qualifications do not exist in Col Regs and exist in a very limited fashion in the Navigation Safety Bylaw 2014, which governs the maritime rules in Auckland Harbour regions. Part 16 of the bylaw states that a person must not operate a vessel in breach of the Maritime NZ Maritime Rules Part 22, which implements the Col Regs into NZ law. Then part 61 of the bylaw says passenger ferries (and a few others) shall not be impeded in the Harbour Bridge precautionary area - this is not the area near North Head where the AC75 came close to the ferry.

The flashing yellow light is only there to indicate that the ferry is not speed limited to 12 knots within the Waitemata Harbour Restricted Zone; the yellow light has nothing to do with Col Regs and as a power-driven vessel it will need to give way to a sailing vessel.

And note that Col Regs rule 18 says nothing about commercial purpose; it only refers to vessel behaviour/circumstance (e.g. not under command, restricted in ability to manoeuvre, fishing, sailing, etc.). The charter AC boats are either power-driven vessels if using their engines or sailing vessels if not using their engines for propulsion.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Being on the water and in the midst of the spectacle will be great. We plan on being out there on our boat and will only manoeuvre enough to get out of the way of other spectator boats as our 7 knots motoring speed won’t be much use in keeping up with the race boats. Unfortunately it will only be local boats as it’s very unlikely that super yachts will be able to come, let alone their owners and guests from abroad.

We plan on having a large screen on board and run Sky Go or whatever other internet source has the race broadcast. I must remember to invite someone on board who doesn’t care about the America’s Cup to drive our boat and keep a lookout. Talk about being distracted! Maybe we should just anchor?

On previous America's Cups (prior to 2013) the courses were long and spectator boats really could not see much of the race except where they were stationed. I was on the media boats in 2000 and 2003 and we raced up and down the course (outside the boundaries) to see all the mark rounding's and were permitted to get quite close. That was spectacular. I shot about 7000 photos. I thought then (and now) that a spectator boat doesn't get to see much, but it is exciting. Sort of like being at a Formula 1 auto race. You get on one spot and watch the racers go by. The media boats were permitted to move.

But in 2013 in SF it changed. The courses became smaller and a spectator could see a bit more, but still not much when the racers were on the other side of the course or at the other end. More so in 2017.

I expect that it will be the same in Auckland.

Unless you can get on one of the photo boats, (with 600 HP or more) you aren't going to see the action (you can if you can get TV or Internet on board).

But it is still worth doing, it is still exciting, and when the racing is finished for the last day, and 3000 spectator boats are all mobbing the race boats and charging back to Auckland, well, you'll never experience that any other way.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by wingssail

On previous America's Cups (prior to 2013) the courses were long and spectator boats really could not see much of the race except where they were stationed. I was on the media boats in 2000 and 2003 and we raced up and down the course (outside the boundaries) to see all the mark rounding's and were permitted to get quite close. That was spectacular. I shot about 7000 photos. I thought then (and now) that a spectator boat doesn't get to see much, but it is exciting. Sort of like being at a Formula 1 auto race. You get on one spot and watch the racers go by. The media boats were permitted to move.

But in 2013 in SF it changed. The courses became smaller and a spectator could see a bit more, but still not much when the racers were on the other side of the course or at the other end. More so in 2017.

I expect that it will be the same in Auckland.

Unless you can get on one of the photo boats, (with 600 HP or more) you aren't going to see the action (you can if you can get TV or Internet on board).

But it is still worth doing, it is still exciting, and when the racing is finished for the last day, and 3000 spectator boats are all mobbing the race boats and charging back to Auckland, well, you'll never experience that any other way.

Back in (I think) 2008, I was anchored 100m from a turn bouy during the Louis Vuitton Pacific Series racing which was essentially match racing in AC boats of the day.

To be that close that you could feel/hear the tension on the boats, the shouting of the crew leading up to the rounding, the loud creaks and groans from winches as sheets were eased, spinnakers ready to go up - really exciting stuff.

But that was all happening at closer to 10 knots than 40. I wonder if the current AC75’s will offer the same spectacle or whether the technical advancement will be like comparing Formula 1 racing to Formula E racing, the manic howl of an 18000rpm V8 compared to the docile whine of an electric motor.

It may be better watching it all from the comfort of my Lazyboy in front of a 65” TV.

[chrisr]

i've been heavily involved in high level yacht racing all my life...but personally i don't find it a spectator sport...boring as watching paint dry...esp 2 boat races like the AC

but then i find F1 boring as well...to each his own i guess

cheers,

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by chrisr

i've been heavily involved in high level yacht racing all my life...but personally i don't find it a spectator sport...boring as watching paint dry...esp 2 boat races like the AC

but then i find F1 boring as well...to each his own i guess

cheers,

Second to being on one of the boats, watching it up close is pretty exciting for me. Watching it from a distant point IS pretty boring, in my opinion.

[Jdc1]

Colregs. Rule 13

(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

... Any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way...

[danleach]

Nice to see the boats up and sailing....and I'm with those who say "This wasn't even close to a collision."

AM could see the ferry all the time and had all the time, speed and wind it needed to decide where to go and when....and yes, as overtaking vessel it was on them not to hit the ferry.

[Captain Rick 50]

Plenty of room. AC75 was just messing with them.