Cone poll

[Tillsbury]

Handy hint: tie your anchor ball and motoring cone (pointy end) permanently together with an appropriate length of line, I use about 3m. Clip the spinnaker halyard to the one you want to use and clip the other signal to the deck. When you arrive at the anchorage you can just flip them around and hoist the ball instead.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Handy hint: tie your anchor ball and motoring cone (pointy end) permanently together with an appropriate length of line, I use about 3m. Clip the spinnaker halyard to the one you want to use and clip the other signal to the deck. When you arrive at the anchorage you can just flip them around and hoist the ball instead.

Interesting, never seen that rig before but that's also how ours are set up. They store in a little niche in the secondary anchor rode locker and it's really easy to put up the one you want. The hardest part about a cone is getting it 'where it can best be seen' when the jib is up.

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Whether others know what it means doesn’t change your duty to fly it. I find it interesting that you seem to imply you don’t need to use one because you feel others don’t know what it means, but then you make the same point about the diver flag.

It’s in the colregs, along with lights. End of story. However, it is useful to bring it up on a regular basis so that newbies who might have replied “what’s a cone” are alerted to its meaning.

The reason a lot of people don’t bother with it, IMHO, is that it appears to voluntarily give up what some skippers believe to be their “rights” in colregs situations. But it doesn’t, as a good read of plenty of threads on here will make clear. It changes your (and the other vessel’s) obligations, but only inasmuch as to make them clear. Failing to fly one if one is required would certainly count against you should there ever be a significant incident. Note that you don’t need to be involved in the incident — it could be a result of a sizeable ship taking evasive action that they didn’t realise they didn’t have to take.

Seriously? Wow. Then read it again. That's not what I'm stating at all.

We owned a motorsailer for years, and at one time or another, I thought I'd read all the colregs. I even have USCG Advanced Navigation. Yet, it seems I missed a line or two.

After reading your post on the other thread, I simply wondered how many others on CF didn't know either. Moreover, I am even more curious about people's attitude toward the compliance and/or resistance to following colregs.

You intimate that I don't use them or am against them, yet the evidence in this thread alone shows otherwise. I bring a floating dive flag on a commercial dive charter that already flies their own flag, yet just miss being hooked and dragged? I built and mounted a red-white-red dive light on my tech dive boat. I have someone stand watch onboard during a night dive. In fact, I'm a TDI certified tech diver. Would someone who went through all that training .... I digress.

You wrote:

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Are you suggesting that people shouldn’t bother flying it because there are idiots around who don’t recognize it?

I'm NOT saying we don't need to use them. Quite the contrary. I'm saying the danger still exists whether the flag was up or not, and the poll definitely speaks volumes to that.

If you are referring to, "However, most of us pretty much know when we are in a possible collision situation, whether we see flopping sails and prop wash on a boat moving past, or flopping sails on a boat that is not moving."

I'm saying that whether I fly a flag, see a flag, or not, this would likely be the mindset of the people who don't, ...because it makes sense, ....and I follow the colregs.

To make it perfectly clear:

Be forewarned, a flag will not protect you!

Get it now?

[Calif.Ted]

Haven't seen one in use for decades.

[boatpoker]

Even tho' use of an inverted cone is quite rare I don't think the judge or the opposing insurance company's council would accept any of the excuses posited here for not flying it.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Even tho' use of an inverted cone is quite rare I don't think the judge or the opposing insurance company's council would accept any of the excuses posited here for not flying it.

This may well be true in the abstract, but have you, or anyone else, ever heard of an actual court case where this was an issue?

It is pretty hard to imagine a scenario where the lack of a cone whilst motorsailing would be a significant factor in a collision involving a private yacht.

And FWIW, I have yet to see one in use, and I've been looking a long time.

Jim

[44'cruisingcat]

I have a black ball, and very few people even know what that's for.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I have a black ball, and very few people even know what that's for.

Our black ball sits next to the black cone. It will be used, I’m sure, in the same locale that I will use the cone.

[bensolomon]

I have a cone and fly it from my signal halyard. Sailing, for me, is also about tradition. So....for me the cone is twofold: It's a rule, AND it's tradition.

[J Clark H356]

Never seen either on Kentucky Lake in 22 years of sailing.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I have a black ball, and very few people even know what that's for.

Likewise... we use the anchor ball routinely, and few seem to notice it, let alone understand its meaning. But w hen we were T-boned at anchor a few years ago, I was glad it was there, even though it did not feature in any discussions with the authorities.

The cone... not used, never seen so far in nearly fifty years of sailing. Lots of us criminals around these parts, but then it is Australia...

Jim

[Don C L]

IN my neighborhood there are a lot of us motoring/motorsailing around and I too have never seen one used. Being under 12m myself I have not considered it a need to prioritize anyway, but if I thought it would increase my safety, I would include it. I think the big white mainsail is pretty visible.

[Montanan]

While I agree that the use of Day Signals is required and wise, I am a realist, as to day signals and yachts:

To establish a gauge on their usage, just try to find a photo online of either a cone or a ball being used. Hint: There is one on the First and the Last Page of the WWW.

Since they are hardly ever used the odds of someone looking for such to determine guidance for COLREG procedures is equally likely; and the odds of someone knowing what they mean if they can see them is probably right up there with being hit by lightning.

As to the Dive Boat and Vessels Restricted in Their Ability to Maneuver, here is a helpful reference as to the Federal Rules from the US Department of Homeland Security brochure, of which the U.S. Coast Guard is affiliated.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by J Clark H356

Never seen either on Kentucky Lake in 22 years of sailing.

Not required under inland rules.

[Jim Cate]

I too have observed folks ignoring Diver Down flags and coming way too close for safety, and I concur with the above dive operators criticism of such.

I have also frequently observed commercial dive boats with permanently displayed Alpha flags... rushing along at planing speeds and also tied up in their marina berths. There is rule flaunting on both sides of the coin! Both are irresponsible, but the pro's should really be ashamed.

Jim