Couples--Recovering a Tethered MOB

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

A quick question about heaving to with a tethered MOB.

I assume it is more likely that the MOB will be on the lee side, If you heave to the MOB will be on the windward side with the bigger sea state.

Would you not be better to just let the main halyard and the sheets go to stop/slow the boat ?

Maybe. But if you are sailing at speed, it might take a while to stop that way. In my opinion, the crucial Job #1 is to get way off as close to instantly as possible, and that is why our procedure is to heave to instantly -- that's the fastest way to stop the boat when under sail.

[psk125]

Originally Posted by thinwater

How do you maneuver them into the tarp, assuming rough conditions? They may be either floating or still attached by tether. (I'm not nitpicking about keeping the tarp open--just getting them to it.)

Dragging them to it by their tether should work. Tarp is kept open by the two corners being fastened to the boat and by the stiffness of the material. Passing the line outside of the victim wraps them into the tarp when the line is tightened. The parbuckle this creates gives the rescuer a 2:1 mechanical advantage lifting the victim aboard even without using a winch.
Starting at about 4:07 this video shows how a similar setup works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBFq30yEpTY

[psk125]

Originally Posted by fgd3

It's that easy if you're sailing to windward. Not so easy if you're running.


Fabbian

We ran a MOB practice drill going downwind in about 18 knots of breeze with the spinnaker up. We were doing at least 8 knots. The helmsman had been told to tack upon hearing the cry "Man Overboard". That is what he did. The spinnaker draped itself all over the rigging, but the boat stopped. We were back within reach of the cushion that had been tossed in 45 seconds.

[roland stockham]

I keep a multi-part tackle rigged to clip under the boom and with a long strop (helicopter recovery strop) attached for just such an occasion. The key part though is having decided on a plan you need to practice it. The first thing that goes overboard in an emergency is people brains, they need to be able to do MOB recovery on autopilot or it won't happen.
A point on not drowning if being dragged alongside. Commercial grade life-vest has enough bouyency and will roll you on your back far enough out of the water to breathe (speaking from experience) and the problem is when this happens while the crew is below deck.

[Andrew MacKenzie]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Come on folks, let's try harder.


Heave to ASAP. You shouldn't need to think about it for 2 seconds. Just throw the wheel over. No more drowning. That was one of the MAIB's findings, but typically no one thinks to do it for 10 minutes or more. Seems obvious.



Do you really want to release at night or in a storm? With a pro crew the odds are bad. With just two of you... nil.


The Clipper race has had 19 tethered MOBs. Only one resulted in a fatality, and that because the tether failed and it became a non-tethered MOB. So actually, no tethered MOB deaths. You do NOT want to release unless there is no choice. And in the case of the Lion, it was not an option, because his release was out of his reach. As for a knife, I'm not sure anyone has ever managed that while being drown. I doubt you could do it if you had your knife in your hand when you went over.



Why would the wife necessarily need to drop sails or lift? In most weather the sails can probably stay up. (maneuver in to hove to position) The lifting should be by winch, which I've had my daughter do.


Yes staying on the boat is better. But that is not a good excuse for not having a plan. Perhaps your wife fell off. Or perhaps you are just shorthanded, but the guests can't sail. Perhaps a guest fell off in moderate weather.


So what is your plan?

1. Lash polyprop "cargo net' (with large mesh) to the seaward side of both
toe-rails, roll up and lash (velcro preferably).
2. In event of MOB, release the velcro thereby creating a "scrambling net" for the MOB to use to "climb/scramble" up out of the water. Being able to put a foot into the net to "push" up will make a world of difference.
3. Practice this technique before-hand. It is probably the "least worst" option if the sticky stuff hits the fan.

Andrew MacK, Cape Town

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by thinwater

First, they may be drowning in the bow wave. Probably the first thing to do is throw the wheel over and heave to (discuss).

Originally Posted by thinwater

Second, they are out of reach or nearly, so pulling won't help. How do you get them on deck? I've seen all manner of efforts, including lowering a man on a halyard. Obviously, most of these have zero chance for a couples boat, with one one person available. How would you do it, specifically if you are the only one on the boat? (Discuss--I am NOT hinting at preference or practicality, just listing some possibilities)

Originally Posted by thinwater

Come on folks, let's try harder.

Originally Posted by thinwater

So give a positive suggestion.

Maybe take a breath and try not to force the responses you want. It's like participating in a thread at gunpoint.

[Cadence]

I'd bet panic to be the worst enemy with a MOB.

[moseriw]

What about pickin the halyard into the lifeline an the release the liveline from the boat?
Then heavin up.

[mikedefieslife]

Presumably this thread is aimed at modern monos?

Catamarans don't really create a bow wave much at all. I know mine doesn't even over 7knts. Also older cats like Gemminis and Prout etc.. have very low freeboad. Sometimes less than a meter in places. On my boat if you go over the lifelines on your tether (if it were possible) you're most of your boat would still be above the deck.

On newer cats like the lagoon 450, you'd be so high out of the water the only issue is how much your harness is hurting, suffocating or otherwise restricting you.

[coastalexplorer]

I have only be knocked over board once from a 13 foot day boat.(in1979)


The crew was a strong young man from Switzerland on his first trip on a sailing boat.



Going from a down wind run to a port reach. (to get off the water) I told him as the boat turns take in the foresail sheet. (my inexperience perhaps) I probably should have ware ship & executed a 270 degree turn but it was a developing storm with an eye to it that was getting worse by the second. In small scale I suppose I thought I could get away with it.



However the boat seemed to take forever to turn, So from a ducked down position I was trying to see why... Then the boom came over and hit me in the head. I went over and down very deep... looking up at the bottom of the boat, I put the mouth tube of the Crewsaver life jacket in my mouth and expired air into it as slowly as possible, dazed It took several seconds to realize the the boat was sailing away towards the shore and the main-sheet rope was slipping through my hands. (later realized it was the drag I was creating that was setting power to the sail) Presence came to mind as there was about four inches left to go of 36 feet. instinctively got a grip with both hands. The boat towed me to the surface,


Belly surfing the wake was trying to pull my sandals off, I curl my toes to try to keep them. A crew in an Enterprise dinghy had sailed over and was following behind. They called out "drop off we will pick you up".


I replied Not an option as the crew does not know how to sail. but He did at least try to pull on the main-sheet from in the boat. (presumably instinctively trying to get me back.) Which served to set the main even more efficiently. increasing the speed. At least we were heading in fast. but before reaching the beach over half a mile out. The 'eye' passed over us and all went dead calm for about one minute. He physically lifted me over the transom sprawling me into the bottom of the boat. My head narrowly missing the dagger board case. I got up as the wind strengthened and took the boat in.



Thus my conclusion from this is that perhaps life lines should be at least 100 foot long. made from webbing. but looped into a bundle near the Jack line the way that truckers tuck away excess length of their loading straps. Perhaps held with two zap straps that could break when excessive tension force is applied by dragging a MOB through the water. As the bundle releases the MOB victim will then pass aft into the calmer water of the boats wake, being towed like a water skier, As was my experience, in small scale.


this gives more time to stop the boat and retrieve at the transom.

[Montanan]

Properly fitted life jacket.

Crotch strap pulled tight, real tight!

Spray hood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNfXMLG5pI4

[SteveSadler]

Lots of ideas to sort thru here. Hoving to seems agreed upon no matter what you have up. The cloth triangle is smart, and can be moved to the MOB if easier. A cargo net is also an easy to deploy way to climb up if uninjured. Noone has mentioned a swim step recovery yet, and most modern boats have them. A line from a backstay led up to the MOB to hand hold or tie is possible, then cut the tether would be simple and easy. Personally I troll a 1" 50' yellow poly line on passages and have the crew jump off the bow, swim to it and haul themselves back in. It's not hard if practised. At least it buys time to yell for help. My experience is people fall over when least expected, in easy conditions, without their safety gear on, taking a leak, getting a bucket of water, freeing a sheet. People break rules. The jackl;ine and tether should not allow a crew to fall past the lifeline in the first place. Rig it centerline with shorter tethers. Need to go fwrd? heave to, all motion stops. It doesn't have to be text book perfect, even without adjusting the sheets, is slows everything way down. Like any subject, there are some good books and articles about this available, read up!

[waterman46]

I think the thread is going in the wrong direction, as in, "an ounce of prevention . . ."

On my boat I arrange jacklines tight, using wire, They are inboard and as high as possible and I use short 2' tether at all times, when conditions warrant any such precautions. Why? Wife is asleep below and could never realize if I did go over the side. Too much other noise on a boat in a seaway and even a scream probably would not wake a sound sleeper. At the mast I clip on right there to any convenient point. With this arrangement I should not be below the deck level if I were to lose my grip and footing. So even if I was unconcious I would not drown.

OH BTW we sail conservatively: no spinnakers, that's for racers and fully crewed boats, and no foredeck work with the whisker pole unless we are both on watch. I used to single hand a Cal29 with spinnaker in ocean races but we are old now and know our limits and life seems more precious!

But if I could not climb back up then if I can get her attention we will stop the boat then attach a spare halyard to my harness and between my lifting on the gunwale and her cranking the winch I should be brought aboard. Failing that I will release from the jackline and drift astern to the ladder.

[SVRC]

By my way of thinking, recovery of crew overboard is best kept as simple as possible, without too many steps for the person(s) thrust into recovery mode.



Also, the procedure will be different dependent on the vessel. Having the ability to get someone back onboard fairly easily was an important consideration when we selected our vessel.



I see tethers as useful so long as they keep you on the vessel. Once overboard they are more dangerous than being cut free so long as you can be located. Being drowned while dragged is less ideal than being difficult to get back to. On our vessel if you are tethered, then you are wearing a pfd with a mob device.



I tell crew, If you go overboard while tethered. Shout for help, use your whistle and unclip if you cannot breath or are at risk of injury.



Persons left onboard should keep an eye on the overboard person, release sheets, release the main halyard and start engines. Under Power, tack through the wind and head upwind of the overboard person releasing the life sling and circling around the overboard crew to bring the float to them. Once they have it, put engines in neutral and pull them to the starboard stern swim ladder and get them onboard.



This process may be different based on sea state, wind and the medical state of the overboard crew. That is when you depend on the crew to use their knowledge and make good decisions.


I'm hoping that no one on this thread is forced to confront this situation.

[Mr B]

When I was in my 20's and exceptionally strong,
I went out on a tourist yacht that sailed to the Islands not far from the mainland,
It was a very big yacht, We walked around on the flat deck,
For an extra thrill ride, They had a boom rigged out over the side with a big net dragging in the water,
We all climbed out and got dragged thru the water hanging onto the net,

Being totally ignorant at the time of the power of water, and thoroughly enjoying the experience of being dragged thru the water by the net,
I worked my way down the net towards the end,
There were about 6 or so people hanging off the net up near the top,
Once I got down a bit, I realised I was in big trouble as the power of the water was dragging me down,
Just by pure strength I pulled myself up the net again, As I didnt want to let go off the net and be laughed at if I let go the net and the yacht had to turn around to come back and get me, I dont swim very well either,
I have never forgotten this experience, Or the power of the water at that time,

Being single handed, I fully realise if I go over the side, I am dead,
Being dragged thru the water on a tether, I have not a hope in hell of getting back onboard,
Cutting myself free or releasing the tether, I am still dead, Floating in an ocean watching my boat sail away,
So my tether is not long enough to allow me to go over the side even unconsious,
I do not go out of the cockpits safety without my harness on,
My jack line runs under the boom from its end to the mast, Further out to the bows, I hang on titely and swap my tether to the forward stay,
I eliminated going out on the bows by rigging up my Genoa to operate from the cockpit,

I did have a passenger on board for a while, Seasick most of the time,
As for helping me sail the boat or if I got into trouble, No way known she could of helped,
As for hearing me scream out for help, She would not have heard me from inside the salon, Or being asleep,
So even couples would still have problems if the one sailing or on watch went over the side,
The partner would most likely be asleep, Or down inside some where, where the noise of the water on the hull or hulls would deaden any screams, whistles or yells for help from the person in trouble,
Cooking noises, Radio or music playing, Would also kill hearing any distress calls,

The partner would only know if the other was in trouble or missing over the side is when they finally come up on deck,

So basically and realistically, even couples would still be sailing single handed at least half of the time,
My transom steps are a foot above the waterline, as for grabbing a post as the boat sailed past and getting myself back on board, Highly unlilkely, I would have to be next to the hulls and facing the right way, Fully concious, and only seconds to be able to grab a post, No second chance there,
Keep your tether on and short enough to never allow your self to go over the side,