Cruising couple attacked in Carribean

[RandyAbernethy]

Los Angeles is running around 1 murder in 8,400 this year with a 1 in 132 violent crime rate.

The commentary below is from a respected security consultant's web:

"The majority of home and apartment burglaries occur during the daytime when most people are away at work or school. The summer months of July and August have the most burglaries with February having the fewest crimes. Burglaries are committed most often by young males under 25 years of age looking for items that are small, expensive, and can easily be converted to cash. Favorite items are cash, jewelry, guns, watches, laptop computers, VCRs, video players, CDs and other small electronic devices are high on the list. Quick cash is needed for living expenses and drugs.

Statistics tell us that 70% of the burglars use some amount force to enter a dwelling, but their preference is to gain easy access through an open door or window. Ordinary household tools like screwdrivers, channel-lock pliers, small pry bars, and small hammers are most often used by burglars. Burglars continue to flourish because police can only clear about 13% of all reported burglaries and rarely catch the thief in the act.

Although home burglaries may seem random in occurrence, they actually involve a selection process. The burglar's selection process is simple. Choose an unoccupied home with the easiest access, the greatest amount of cover, and with the best escape routes."

More at: http://www.crimedoctor.com/home.htm

While this is targeted at home owners in LA and the greater US much seems universal and easily translated to dwelling aboard. Following the Hard Target line of thinking I have seen data indicating that homes with dogs have minimal representation in the burglary statistics. Why break into a house with a sentient creature that is almost guaranteed to hear you (detection), bark (alarm) and possibly attack you (retribution)?

I would love to hear thoughts from folks cruising with dogs. Have any of you ever had your boat broken into with a dog aboard?

[Morris Covin]

I know this issue has been discussed many times, however, I want to ask the following. All cruisers know that once you enter another countries waters you are required to declare your weapons if carried. I have heard that most times you either don't get your guns back or the one you get back is not the one you gave them. Or you get it back and it's been fired, banged up, and rusty. Plus all the red-tape you have to deal with.

This question requires a honest answer from cruisers who do in fact carry firearms aboard their yachts. Do you declare your weapons or do you just not say anything and hide them as well as can be?

In reality, how often are officials going to board your vessel and throughly search it? I know that if they do find them you are probably in big trouble. My thoughts, when it comes to protecting the wife and I from pirates, is that I would rather be jailed than see harm come to her and possibly be set adrift at sea.

I am highly trained in the use of firearms with 28 years of law enforcement experience and this in itself causes a problem. I have always been able to carry a weapon on and off duty. But now that we will be visiting other countries (islands), I will feel helpless without some type of protection.

Just curious what some of you think and actually do while cruising.

Maybe you just have to set sail, trust in the Lord, and enjoy life.

Thanks in advance.

[GordMay]

Morris:
Your question(*1), and statement(*2) seems to assume that you need to carry firearms to be “safe”, and that the perceived benefits outweigh the likely costs.

*1 ”... declare your weapons or do you just not say anything and hide them as well as can be? ...”

The equation might be a little more complex than that assumed* in your query:
a. go armed a be safe from pirates, but at risk to authorities
or
b. go unarmed and be at risk from pirates, but safe from authorities

*2 ”... when it comes to protecting the wife and I from pirates, is that I would rather be jailed than see harm come to her and possibly be set adrift at sea ...”

I would highly recommend that anyone preparing to cruise research and consider several preliminary questions regarding personal and property safety, including:

1. What is the likelihood that I/we will encounter a situation in which possession of firearms will/could be a determining factor in our safety?

2. What is the likelihood that the above will be a positive factor?

3. What is the likelihood that my/our firearm(s) will be effectively available for defensive use, in the a above circumstances? How will this affect my/our daily lifestyle?

I presume you have read the thread “Firearms Regulations by Country “(*3), and understand the rights, obligations, and requirements you might expect(*4) to encounter in your cruising. If not, you should goto:
*3 http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1641

*4 If you wish to bring firearms into any country, inquire at the country's embassy or consulate about the permit required. Some countries impose a stiff prison term for importing illegal firearms.

Americans, intending to carry firearms outside the U.S., or Inter-State, should be aware that you may be liable to the requirements of the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 , and other U.S. regulations.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#l2 et al

These are all important matters which could present profound consequences, and deserve your most careful enlightened consideration. Don't let false assumptions and old biases (including mine) determine your actions.

Respectfully,
Gord

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by Morris Covin

I am highly trained in the use of firearms with 28 years of law enforcement experience and this in itself causes a problem. I have always been able to carry a weapon on and off duty. But now that we will be visiting other countries (islands), I will feel helpless without some type of protection.

This paragraph troubles me. I read it as implying that you will feel helpless if you do *not* have a gun, since you are so used to having one now.

Have you ever, outside of the line of duty, found the occasion to point a gun at someone?

I'm trying to understand why, as someone in a boat (and not out in a seedy club at night or something), you would feel threatened. The amount of contact cruisers have with other people is quite limited, unless you go and seek out unsavory types. The vast majority of people you meet will be other cruisers, who like you, will be out cruising.

Either way, all of your training and as many rifles and pistols as you can carry isn't really going to mean a thing when you are approached by actual pirates carrying deck-mounted AK's. You waive your little gun at them and you're in for more trouble than letting them rob you.

Just some ideas to think about.

[Pura Vida]

Morris, I don't have 20 years of live aboard experience in the far flung corners of the earth, but I have spent a enough time in the Caribbean and Central America to be familiar with them. I have never considered carrying firearms and never thought I needed them. I'm getting a little long in the tooth and frankly landing at a foreign airport, renting a jeep and driving off into the jungle without a destination in mind is exciting, not threatening, for me and the wife.

It sounds like you consider training to be part of the problem. Some feel lost without their keys just from the force of habit. If that is true you may decide to retrain your thinking or just live with it. Despite growing up with firearms I've don't considered them necessary and would frankly feel more concerned about the hassles of having one with me. In my case I would have to retrain myself to believe I need to carry one.

It's all a personal choice. Gord has posted a comprehensive outline of firearms laws in another thread and it is a worthy read. If going with a firearm is the only choice for you consider sailing the coast of the States. I beieve that it is a very underrated criusing ground. As a long time law enforcement official you may well find State and Federal carry laws flexible for you. All the best.

[gopher]

I'm new to this site but thought I would let you know what we did in the carribean when we where there in the late 70's. We had a very large packet of drawing pins onboard and at night we put them on the deck, that way nobody could come aboard at night
without waking us up. But this we only did if we were alone or just a couple of yachties around.
gopher

[dana-tenacity]

Just sail to NZ, that figure for murders in LA is nearly 5 x the rate here.

[sundown]

Morris:
Why would you want to visit a country and not respect the conditions which it lays down when extending its hospitality? If you don't think you can be safe when using a wee bit of common sense then just don't go. If you were a cop I would think that would be the same advice you were handing tourists to the 'questionable areas' of your city. Your money and your presence may be better appreciated some where else.
Personally if someone wants to come on my boat and 'rob' me I'll help him load the stuff up rather than make a fight of it and end up crippled. I have managed to make the last 60 or so years without too much conflict and have a hell of a lot of good memories of folk whom I was supposed to be scared of.

[swagman]

If it helps put all this in perspective, I read a link from another sailing site this week which provided a consolidated report (by a govt authority) on global piracy incidents - and that led on to looking at other security nets.

Sure piracy happens (it seems there were 12 reported incidents in the whole Caribbean in September) - but we seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time discussing what is actually a rarity. And it sadly seems from some comments - the scare tactics give some people a chance to air personal predjudices - appearing to lay all blame on some specific groups.

I aim to spend more time in the Caribben next year, and I would not consider leaving without getting metal hatch / washboard replacements which can be locked up securely when below at night.

(I actually think there is a commercial opportunity that exisits for someone to design something in alloy mesh with fly screens that can be adjusted to fit large opening hantches as well as companionways....but that's an entirely different matter.)

Overall IMHO there are so many nice places to visit in the years one has on this earth, so avoiding those spots where one does learn of incidents is not exactly restricting ones opportunities to travle.

And going suitable suitably equipped and with eyes open - wide aware - is not the hardest thing to do either.........

So sorry for this monologue, but in wrapping up - I have to say if I felt so so insecure in travelling alone without firearms or if I lost sleep continually worried about being mugged on some street corner, then travelling into new lands and meeting new people is probably not what I would choose to do.

Cheers
JOHN

[GordMay]

Yacht Piracy - Information Centre for Bluewater Sailors: http://www.yachtpiracy.org/en

Registration of pirate attacks since 1996: http://www.yachtpiracy.org/en/list_o...ed_yachts.htm/

Arms aboard – helpful or not? http://www.yachtpiracy.org/en/arms_abord.htm

[monaco]

[quote=CaptainK]Looks like we hurt, little boats' feelings!!

But the crime in the USA per capita is alot more. Due to our country being more populated than the Caribean islands are.



Huh??? That sentence is so flawed it just needed to be pointed out. Perhaps you ought to learn exactly what per capita might mean before using it in a sentence.

[monaco]

[quote=little boat]sorry if i lost my temper, but this thread filled with landlocked u.s.a sailors and suggestions of how to turn your boat into a fall out shelter really got to me;

if you live in landlocked america, or suggest fortress-like add ons for your boat, perhaps you should try just sailing around for a while and meeting the people first before you post.

---------

I tend not to post in these types of threads but this one has me going. There has been some very nasty things said. Many said by posters I have otherwise read with interest and respect. Anyway, here is one small theory on an excellent way to avoid some problems. While my experience isn't nearly as vast as many here, I can speak with some knowledge.

In many places that have crime problems related to boats, the criminals are a small group. Word travels very quickly amongst them. Some small act of speaking to people, or a good deed somewhere along the line and you quickly become known as one of the good ones. While not infalliable, you are rather more likely to be left alone.

From the tone here, there seems to be some who might sail in appearing to have all the wealth in the world. Then proceed to treat locals with disdain and wonder why they might have problems. Then others, like little boat I believe, might be there for a long time and never have an issue. I would wager that is more than luck.

[monaco]

[quote=CSY Man]

Who are the racist posters and where is the racist postings?


-----

Here might be an example
"Those rastas are not too bright to start with, then they smoke dope and go wild.
Better stay far away and let 'em fight their own mental demons"

I will let you work out for yourself who posted this earlier in the thread. I think I will now quit banging my head against the wall and return to browsing other threads.

[Brett Lewis]

CSY Man,
It's been about 10 years since you wrote this but I thought I'd set the record straight anyway. The "lady on the boat", wife of the then owner of Alexander Hamilton (now owned by someone else) was my step mother so I know a great deal about the case.
The attacker was not a rasta. He was a completely criminally insane individual who had been passed back and forth between Mental Health and Law Enforcement because we was unmanageable. He was also on a PCP at the time, apparently.
There are true Rastafarians out there and then there are those who simply use the label to get away with doing whatever they want. I'm sorry that you or anyone had to be anywhere near that horrible incident.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Brett.