Defending your boat (pirates, angry mobs of fisherman etc)

[deblen]

Rock salt: https://www.bullseye-cartridge.com/1...lt-5-pack.html

[BobFord]

This blog has certainly discovered a variety of opinions ; good stuff ,this is a great way for many , less experienced ,to judge their actions ! Personally ,a firearm is a 'last resort' and perhaps , 1) best carried if you know how to care for and fire the weapon 2) are prepared to injure or maim a serious aggressor or a rabid animal 3) know how to conceal or declare to a relevant authority. 4) and most important, carry when in a remote area where a call for help may not be available. You are on your own and don't expect someone else to rescue you. After all ,those of us that choose to sail in remote or dangerous areas should be prepared to be totally self sufficient.

[Bycrick]

How common something is doesn’t mean much when you happen to be the one that has a problem. The idea that I should make myself defenseless because whatever armament might not work under some circumstances doesn’t make much sense. The people who don’t like guns can always find a million "good reasons" that other people shouldn’t have them.

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

We all knew it would drift this way.

But I will say that you and a few others have provided some very level-headed information and advice on this contentious subject.

Yes I agree

Obviously it is making some uncomfortable. When I see 3 or 4 posts by the same poster that are totally off topic, posturing as "humor", the intention to disrupt the discussion is not that well disguised. Gord, Bless you.

It is a difficult topic, but relevant imo because the world IS becoming more aggressive. The news of prime first world countries grows steadily more violent. Third world countries experiencing financial pressures more so.

The last part of my question is the most difficult to discuss because it is so variable. I heard this story second hand so some details may be missing, but the gist of it is that in a tourist town in a country that is not first world, he managed to upset a local boat who summoned an angry mob who boarded his boat, beat him badly in front of his wife, and put him in the hospital for a while.

Now I know this is unusual, and yes he is a bit of a tough case, and probable didnt diffuse and grovel appropriately

BUT

I wonder how that would have played out if he had pulled out a 12 guage and kept them at bay until coast guard arrived?

He would not have got beating which arguably could have cost him anything from loss of an eye to death. they were using everything they could find.
Perhaps they would have simply gone for their weapons and he would be in a gun fight. Perhaps they would back off, and come back late at night. Perhaps they would follow him out to sea and sink his boat, or sink it while he is ashore.

These cultures dont have honor in their fighting. They gather anyone and everyone and come as a mob.

Perhaps it was better to just take the beating?
What would you do?

[Flying Monkey]

Would it not be awesome if someone made a modern, bronze, 3" deck gun? I am no expert or even half-a$$ informed on these things, but I saw in a salty old movie once where the ship had this over-size shotgun type cannon on a swivel, pedastal mount on deck. it was like an anti-personel cannon.
Wouldn't it be cool to have one of those for a big, smokey, blustery anti-pirate deterrent blast? It would mostly be for dramatic affect- big bang, huge puff of black powder smoke, random, 58 caliber grape shot whistling through the air....
now that, I could get behind. Make a pirate type stand against pirate type attacks.

[AKA-None]

Got to love the folks thinking they are going to shoot from a pitching boat like they do at a range

Just saying

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

The last part of my question is the most difficult to discuss because it is so variable. I heard this story second hand so some details may be missing, but the gist of it is that in a tourist town in a country that is not first world, he managed to upset a local boat who summoned an angry mob who boarded his boat, beat him badly in front of his wife, and put him in the hospital for a while.
[...]

I wonder how that would have played out if he had pulled out a 12 guage and kept them at bay until coast guard arrived?

Badly. He would have been arrested and charged, and probably imprisoned.

What would you do?

1) Recognize that a less assertive posture is called for in any foreign land
2) Watch for signs of escalation after any adverse encounter
3) Weigh anchor and leave town at the first sign that trouble is brewing

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

.

It is a difficult topic, but relevant imo because the world IS becoming more aggressive. The news of prime first world countries grows steadily more violent. Third world countries experiencing financial pressures more so.

The last part of my question is the most difficult to discuss because it is so variable. I heard this story second hand so some details may be missing, but the gist of it is that in a tourist town in a country that is not first world, he managed to upset a local boat who summoned an angry mob who boarded his boat, beat him badly in front of his wife, and put him in the hospital for a while.

Now I know this is unusual, and yes he is a bit of a tough case, and probable didnt diffuse and grovel appropriately

BUT

I wonder how that would have played out if he had pulled out a 12 guage and kept them at bay until coast guard arrived?

He would not have got beating which arguably could have cost him anything from loss of an eye to death. they were using everything they could find.
Perhaps they would have simply gone for their weapons and he would be in a gun fight. Perhaps they would back off, and come back late at night. Perhaps they would follow him out to sea and sink his boat, or sink it while he is ashore.

These cultures dont have honor in their fighting. They gather anyone and everyone and come as a mob.

Perhaps it was better to just take the beating?
What would you do?

Angry mobs seem pretty common place in the news in the USA
Is this where you are talking about?

What countries do you consider first and third world?

[GreenHeaven]

Angry mobs seem pretty common place in the news in the USA
Is this where you are talking about?

NO

Badly. He would have been arrested and charged, and probably imprisoned.

yes it would have certainly led to an arrest in a foreign country, and a legal problem, but is that better than weeks in hospital? risk of being beaten to death?

He certainly has a right to defend himself from a mob in any country, but the undeclared firearm would be a problem.

To play devils advocate, lets assume you actually didnt do anything, you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. you believe that the mob is going to kill you. This happens all the time in India for example. Modi has a serious problem because he told the police to let an attack on a politician go ahead for 12hrs before they arrived.

The politician and several other people were dragged from their homes, hacked to pieces and burnt. There is a BBC docu on Modi.

In this hypothetical, YOU BELIEVE they will kill you. There is no one to help. You cant out run their boats. They will ram you and sink you.

Mobs are terrifying. Ive seen it. Police run the opposite direction. You are on your own. Do you pull that weapon out? are you going to use it?
Its a very tough call.
Like a samurai sword, once unsheathed, there is no going back
I am just curious how others would see the options?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

The last part of my question... the gist of it is that in a tourist town in a country that is not first world, he managed to upset a local boat who summoned an angry mob who boarded his boat, beat him badly in front of his wife, and put him in the hospital for a while.

Upset, as in sink or flip their boat? or upset as in p1ss them off?

If the former, your friend doesn't need a gun, he needs to improve his seamanship. Or at least his diplomacy, if he wasn't apologetic and helpful enough after swamping or whatever that boat.

(If one American upset another American's boat, and was a jerk about it, there'd be a fistfight there too, right?)

If the latter - he p1ssed them off - then he needs a recent copy of any Rick Steves book, and to memorize the many sections on how not to be an a$$h0le when in a foreign country. It's really not that hard.

These cultures dont have honor in their fighting. They gather anyone and everyone and come as a mob.

Lemme stop you right there. I've been treated worse in a Walmart parking lot than in the few not-1st-world countries we've visited. Honour is HUGE in many of those countries and cultures; it's one of the few things they can hang onto even when the money's tight.

Mobs behaving badly and attacking outsiders is a sad stain on the history of just about all countries. Ours included.

Behaving without honour is flipping someone's boat, then not trying your best to make it right, including compensation for damage caused. A boat is a fisherman's meal ticket, and possibly their most important asset.

So you're way off base there.

What would you do?

I would try harder to not be a jerk when a guest in someone else's country.

Sorry for being harsh, but that's the bottom line. A considerate and respectful tourist will be safer than an armed jerk.

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by BobFord

This blog has certainly discovered a variety of opinions ; good stuff ,this is a great way for many , less experienced ,to judge their actions ! Personally ,a firearm is a 'last resort' and perhaps , 1) best carried if you know how to care for and fire the weapon 2) are prepared to injure or maim a serious aggressor or a rabid animal 3) know how to conceal or declare to a relevant authority. 4) and most important, carry when in a remote area where a call for help may not be available. You are on your own and don't expect someone else to rescue you. After all ,those of us that choose to sail in remote or dangerous areas should be prepared to be totally self sufficient.

Thanks for stating the simple truths that shouldn't need to be said, but apparently do, if only to mollify the knocking knees of nervous Nellies and assorted "progressive" virtue signallers.

For those that haven't noticed, the world is again reminding us that ultimately we have only what we are willing to defend. Every society has a segment who pose in stained glass attitudes while anticipating that someone else will do the defending for them. The high seas, like the wilderness are the province of the individual who will have to rely first on his own resources or suffer the Darwinian consequences.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

. I would try harder to not be a jerk when a guest in someone else's country.

Sorry for being harsh, but that's the bottom line. A considerate and respectful tourist will be safer than an armed jerk.

It's why whenever we have travelled throughout South East Asia we go out of our way to stay as far away from tourist areas and non locals as possible.

I am there to embrace and immerse in the Asian culture, not ours
And quite frankly, I more often than not find westerners behaviour in other lands an embarrassment.
Expecting things to be the same as home and having a dummy spit when it's not.

I'm constantly surprised at how tolerant of dheads people in other lands can be.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

And how long does that take?

Pumping the action takes a second if you're practiced, I'd say. Taking it off your shoulder, bringing it up, and getting back on target at least a few more. Long enough for an AK-47 to send 5-6 rounds your way. If you were using a Beretta Tactical, instead of a Mossberg Pump, you can get off 4 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger, which is 36 #00 .32 caliber pellets on the way.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

yes it would have certainly led to an arrest in a foreign country, and a legal problem, but is that better than weeks in hospital? risk of being beaten to death?

Firearms are lethal force, not a movie prop. The way you use them, the way you train, is you eliminate threats by shooting at people who are trying to hurt or kill you. Do that against a large group (mob) of people on their own turf who have community support and a belief that they are in the right and the bodies will pile up. If you survive the encounter, you will spend the rest of your life in a small room with rats and no plumbing.

He certainly has a right to defend himself from a mob in any country

Everyone ever accused of a crime of violence tells the cop that they were just defending themselves. Besides, you can't outgun a mob.

In this hypothetical, YOU BELIEVE they will kill you. There is no one to help. You cant out run their boats. They will ram you and sink you.

Mobs are terrifying. Ive seen it. Police run the opposite direction. You are on your own. Do you pull that weapon out? are you going to use it?
Its a very tough call.
Like a samurai sword, once unsheathed, there is no going back
I am just curious how others would see the options?

This isn't a problem that can be solved with firearms.

You have to pay attention to your environment to stay safe. It doesn't matter if you're armed to the teeth, you don't walk through a hostile crowd, you don't turn your back on a potential threat, you don't go looking for trouble, you don't pick fights, and any time the security situation around you starts to deteriorate, you get out while the getting is good.

This is where the posters upthread that said you stay out of trouble spots are correct.

Shotguns work against banditry. They aren't useful against organized crime, corrupt police, autocratic regimes, starving peasants, etc.

How do I see the options? If you have a time machine, then back up the bus to the point where you could have made a better decision. A decision not to visit a known trouble spot. A decision not to wear a bikini to the beach. A decision to give way to a fishing boat. A decision not to purchase chemicals and sacred plants from the locals. No time machine? Well, some action movie parkour moves are probably a better bet than reenacting Thomas Baker's defense of Saipan.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Got to love the folks thinking they are going to shoot from a pitching boat like they do at a range

Originally Posted by ixnax

Pumping the action takes a second if you're practiced, I'd say. Taking it off your shoulder, bringing it up, and getting back on target at least a few more. Long enough for an AK-47 to send 5-6 rounds your way. If you were using a Beretta

Someone ought to take you two out duck hunting sometime to show you how it's done. If you're good you can get three ducks in three shots from a moving boat (well, moving after the first shot anyway). With a pump. You can't get more than that because, since 1935, federal law has limited magazine capacity to three shots total while hunting migratory waterfowl.