Defending your boat (pirates, angry mobs of fisherman etc)

[K1MGY]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Only as a last resort do you take it out and you take it out to kill people only, without hesitation

I'd argue that your emphasis is incorrect.

The point of using a defensive weapon is to stop the threat.

[capn ken]

Originally Posted by Franziska

I'm sorry, but let's ignore this thread. It's been discussed a thousand times and will be just a repercussion and stress for the moderators.

If you want, just use the search function in the forum, and you have endless hours of reading material.

Thank you for some common sense .

[SailingInfidels]

Threads like this why I stopped coming to this forum anymore, though I have been popping by more often lately. The first couple of responses to this thread were right on the money. Yet here you are on 15 of it.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Exile

My understanding is that the Red Sea isn't so hot anymore due to a strong NATO naval response. With the caveat that there's an ongoing civil war in Yemen.

When we wanted to go from Indonesia into the Atlantic there was an international naval force, not just NATO, in the region. They had a website with one page dedicated to yachts. They said quite explicitly that they could do nothing if a sailboat was taken by pirates. The exclusion zone they had went as far east as the southern tip of India and as far south as the southern tip of Madagascar. We followed their advice and went via South Africa.

After our circumnavigation it appeared we might get to captain one of two 50 foot sailboats as part of a Chinese reality TV show that would feature young women in bikinis in exotic places.(Yes I know, tough job.) The producer said he had arranged for a Chinese naval vessel in the multi-national force to accompany us through the area. Of course, he also said he had arranged the funding for the series and that turned out not to be true.

[Rainbow48]

Been cruising - high seas - for over 50 years. Absolutely, cruising has become more problematic. There are more “crazies” and “bad guys” out there than there used to be. What is hard to believe is the level of naivety displayed in the majority of these response postings. The ability to defend oneself on the high seas is a skill that all cruisers should be adept in, like celestial navigation, weather forecasting, and heavy weather boat handling techniques. Never been questioned by customs or immigration people in any port (US, Asia, Africa, Europe) regarding firearms, regardless of what was declared. Having radio or sat phone coms (or something like a .22 or 9mm, for that matter) will not help you during a potential incident. Stay updated on current “hotspots” and incident reports and avoid wherever possible. Go loaded for bear - the mega yachts do. Prepare for every contingency you can think of (the wise sailor does this, anyway). Would’ve, could’ve, should’ve won’t help in any bad scenario at sea.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SailingInfidels

Threads like this why I stopped coming to this forum anymore, though I have been popping by more often lately. The first couple of responses to this thread were right on the money. Yet here you are on 15 of it.

I certainly understand and respect peoples' opinions -- negative & positive -- about firearms generally and on boats. But never quite understood the objections to OTHER people politely discussing the topic pro or con. Especially on a forum where it's all too easy to unsubscribe, ignore, or merely "lurk" if so desired. There are certainly other controversial or just pedantic () topics I often (and can understand others) simply opting out of, but why deny that opportunity to people who have legitimate interest or concern? Assuming, that is, forum rules are followed. I don't get this.

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by Chotu

All this bravado about scaring people off with the sound of your gun or flashing your gun really goes against everything I was taught.

I was taught that you don’t take out a gun unless you are killing someone.

My defense plans don’t include brandishing a weapon (illegal nearly everywhere), trying to make sounds with a weapon, etc.

My plan includes not letting anyone know there is a weapon, then trying every single thing I can to avoid using one. Only as a last resort do you take it out and you take it out to kill people only, without hesitation

Well, it turns out the non-"gun enthusiasts" are quite keen on going back and forth about the minutiae of hardware and the imagined use thereof.

Before anyone whips out their firearm at the last possible moment and blazes away "to kill people only" like a movie hero pushed to his last resort, perhaps it would be prudent to consider the example of the hundreds of thousands of crimes prevented by concealed-carry licensees in the USA.

In the vast majority of cases demonstrating to the criminals that one is armed and apparently willing and able to use said arms, is enough to make them go looking for a more helpless victim. The same holds true everywhere: criminals are in no hurry to die or suffer GBH and no normal person wants to have to injure or kill another person unless absolutely unavoidable.

In international relations it is called "deterrence" or in the worst case "mutually-assured destruction". It's probably why we're still here to talk about it.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwH0VfcBMWA

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by AiniA

When we wanted to go from Indonesia into the Atlantic there was an international naval force, not just NATO, in the region. They had a website with one page dedicated to yachts. They said quite explicitly that they could do nothing if a sailboat was taken by pirates. The exclusion zone they had went as far east as the southern tip of India and as far south as the southern tip of Madagascar. We followed their advice and went via South Africa.

After our circumnavigation it appeared we might get to captain one of two 50 foot sailboats as part of a Chinese reality TV show that would feature young women in bikinis in exotic places.(Yes I know, tough job.) The producer said he had arranged for a Chinese naval vessel in the multi-national force to accompany us through the area. Of course, he also said he had arranged the funding for the series and that turned out not to be true.

Could you flush this out a little more please. Dates, what int naval force? Which countries. How did you contact them?
This just sounds like a generic blow off. Half the Indian ocean is unsafe. Really?
A quick check on the poplular cruising youtud channels shows many visiting Islands off the coast of India and Africa fromSeychelles, Maldives all the way to Madagascar - as they do every year

[BluePeter]

I'm LMAO.
The old sages of the sea deflect an honest question, suggest it be ignored, and it meanwhile generates a 15-page (so far) response. Isn't it ironic?

[kurtis king]

it happens to cruisers. i met a couple in Sea of Cortez that experienced it.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Tillikum

...perhaps it would be prudent to consider the example of the hundreds of thousands of crimes prevented by concealed-carry licensees in the USA

Not proven.

The evidence to date does not adequately indicate either the sign or the magnitude of a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates. ...
In other words, the data does not clearly link concealed carry statutes to the crime rate at all, much less show that they reduce violent crime. If you’re wondering do states with concealed weapons reduce crime, there isn’t a definitive answer, unfortunately.

Many other links if you wannem'... US homicide/violent crime/major-crime rates vs the world...

Looking at it another way... if you think that gun proliferation in the US has resulted in a lower crime rate there...then that would imply that the US crime rate would be INSANELY Venezuela-grade high otherwise, yes? Personally, I don't think that Americans in general are so criminally-inclined that only concealed carry will keep them in check.

Originally Posted by Exile

But [I] never quite understood the objections to OTHER people politely discussing the [gun] topic pro or con.

Well, as we keep seeing in this thread, its a topic rife with misinformation, and it's clearly a topic dominated by strong political feelings (pro or con) which seem to obscure the facts... and political debates aren't welcome on CF?

[Adelie]

This thread is now becoming contentious but not quite enough to shut it down.

Also it is veering off into politics not directly related to cruising which is leading to deletions.

Why don't you all go find a nice anchor thread?

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by Adelie

This thread is now becoming contentious but not quite enough to shut it down.

Also it is veering off into politics not directly related to cruising which is leading to deletions.

Why don't you all go find a nice anchor thread?

Thanks for your opinion. We will just have to agree to disagree about that

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by kurtis king

it happens to cruisers. i met a couple in Sea of Cortez that experienced it.

Please elaborate. Details

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Not proven.

The evidence to date does not adequately indicate either the sign or the magnitude of a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates. ...
In other words, the data does not clearly link concealed carry statutes to the crime rate at all, much less show that they reduce violent crime. If you’re wondering do states with concealed weapons reduce crime, there isn’t a definitive answer, unfortunately.

Many other links if you wannem'... US homicide/violent crime/major-crime rates vs the world...

Looking at it another way... if you think that gun proliferation in the US has resulted in a lower crime rate there...then that would imply that the US crime rate would be INSANELY Venezuela-grade high otherwise, yes? Personally, I don't think that Americans in general are so criminally-inclined that only concealed carry will keep them in check.

Well, as we keep seeing in this thread, its a topic rife with misinformation, and it's clearly a topic dominated by strong political feelings (pro or con) which seem to obscure the facts... and political debates aren't welcome on CF?

I keep reading this assertion, but I dont see the politics.
We are talking about boat defense situations AT SEA


NOT GUN LOBBYING IN AMERICA ON LAND

I guess you see what you want to see. I dont have a dog in any political fight, I just want an open discussion. I want to hear opinions, suiggestions, solutions.