Guns on Board

[Doodles]

[atoll]

wouldn't it be easier to just fed-ex the firearm to florida!

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by zboss

Yes - I went there...

I DO NOT WANT AN ARGUMENT ON THE PROS/CONS.

I just want to know two things:

- Is it legal to carry my gun on my coast guard documented vessel up and down the ICW, and;

- Do I need to register that gun when entering a new state (say florida) where we will be staying for winter.

The boat is currently in maryland but I do not have a maryland license.

Maryland has specific laws concerning carrying weapons in vehicles (including boats). It is basically allowed if you are going to/from a bonafide shooting event, going to/from a gun smith, to/from a gun store for sale/purchase. If you are a designated collector you can also "move" part or all of your collection for show. Maryland does not have an exemption in its laws for taking a gun out of state for the purpose of protection. You must be moving it for the above reasons even if headed out of state.

FOPA is in effect once you leave MD provided you don't STOP in another state and your destination allows you possession of the firearm(s) in your possession. MD, for instance, would not allow "assault pistols". FOPA is not a get out of jail card, it is a defense in court. Some jurisdictions are much more hard core than others.

I would think it very difficult to use a boat and be able to claim FOPA. You may stop for fuel and food. You would loose FOPA if you stopped for rest.

CG documentation is not a factor in this.

It is a lot more complicated than it should be.

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by atoll

wouldn't it be easier to just fed-ex the firearm to florida!

It would need to be sent overnight to a FFL, who will charge for the service to transfer the firearm back to you.

[JK n Smitty]

Originally Posted by John Drake

ZBOSS

Your boat is not like your car or house.

A cruising boat is not treated the same way a car is, when carrying weapons across state lines. In a car, a properly encased, unloaded firearm, put away out of arms reach, should be able to be legally carried THROUGH any state, if you are just passing through and not stopping....and can legally possess that firearm in the state of origin and state of destination. This is NOT true for boats.

LE must have probable cause to enter your home (or an invitation). That is NOT true with a boat (even if it is your home).

The USCG can stop and board your boat without notice or probable cause, at any time. Anywhere. Even on the high seas, in international waters.

If a LE boat wants to stop you and board you, all they need is either state probable cause OR ask ANY USCG officer or boat, to assist.

And do not forget, the USCG have LE authority.

You really need to research and understand what the laws are in ALL of the states and jurisdictions you will be going through. Including MD and DC. Your CCW permit is not recognized in MD, DC or GA.

Long guns have different restrictions than handguns. Semi-auto's tend to be more restricted than other types.

In MD, it may be illegal to even possess a magazine capable of carrying more than 10 rounds (need to check that). In NY...it is SEVEN ROUNDS.

The most universally accepted arms would probably be lever guns and pump shotguns (with magazine capacities of 10 rounds or less). But, again, you must research all local and state laws. And read the link I posted above. The penalties for a mistake can be severe. LE is taking this very seriously these days.

Hope this helps

I have to challenge some of this. Title 14 Section 89 gives the USCG the right to board any vessel to enforce federal law only. Harbormasters and local police marine units don't have the same exception. Only the USCG can board without permission or a warrant.

Relative to guns, most of us have purchased our guns legally by federal laws. For most guns that people would carry these are very simple. Legal guns with serial numbers and you are over the age of 18. If you purchase them from a gun store, you have to go through a background check.

Laws that say if a 10 round magazine is required or if you can carry that gun on your person are state laws. The USCG has no authority over those laws.

That being said, one of the biggest problems with guns is that even most law enforcement don't know the laws.

I have a friend that was boarded by the USCG in MA, he had a gun on board and is licensed in MA to carry concealed. The gun was actually below in a case. They asked if he had any weapons. He said yes. They then asked if he was licensed for it. He said they weren't allowed to ask that because they didn't have jurisdiction. They had to call into their commanding officer who didn't know the answer and had to call his superior. They asked to see the weapon while they waited for an answer. My friend and a USCG went below, my friend pointed to the case. The weapon was a Walther PPK semi-auto 380. The USCG took the gun from the case and in trying to make it safe, chambered a round. My friend had to show him how to make a semi-auto handgun safe despite the fact that he was carrying one on his hip and had a rifle in his hand. They finally got word that they didn't care if he was licensed in MA from their commanding officer. After all that they gave him back his gun and told him to have a nice day.

Bottom line for me is that I would not let the state license prevent me from carrying a gun I can legally own on my boat while cruising in the US. I do think that carrying a shot gun or rifle (non-AR) might be easier from a hassle with law enforcement stand point.

Going to other countries is another whole story.

Jesse

[John Drake]

ANY USCG unit can stop and board your vessel anywhere, anytime. No reason or probably cause needed.

ANY local LE authority just needs to hail a USCG fast boat, and they can board your vessel as well, accompanied by the USCG. If you cruise in these waters, you will find that out very quickly.

Gun laws can be very different state to state. A gun that might be legal in YOUR state, may not be in the next state over. Stating that a gun that can be legally owned somewhere should be fine elsewhere is very ignorant of the law and very bad advice.

In these waters, the first thing the USCG will do on a boarding is ask if you have any weapons. Lie to them and you give them probable cause to tear your boat apart. Show them your firearm, as you should, and you had better be legal in THAT jurisdiction. If they feel it is not, they will simply hail an LE authority and that person will be on your boat in minutes. If your weapon is not legal in the jurisdiction you are in, you will be handcuffed, arrested and taken to jail. It is really that simple and this has been discussed on this board numerous times.

[Even if most often the USCG or LE leave you alone, it would be very bad advice to tell someone to rely on that]

There is only one solution. Research and know ALL the laws. Be legal in every state and local jurisdiction you will go to or sail through.

From VA south, that should not be a big deal...but there are still some issues that the original poster needs to research for himself.

Hope this helps

best

J

[John Drake]

Some are confusing two separate issues.

Both the possessor AND the actual firearm itself must be legal in the jurisdiction.

Some places, such as NY, NJ, MD, you need to have a permit to OWN a firearm and that specific firearm MUST be listed on your permit. In NY and MD, I *think* you must first be licensed to OWN a firearm before you can get a permit and buy one.

AND....

As stated many places above, different states have different laws regarding what you can legally possess (have in your possession....not just own) ...in that state.

In NY, most types of AR's are not legal. Semi-auto magazines can only have a maximum capacity of SEVEN rounds. In MD, it may be 10.

Just the possession of a magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds is ILLEGAL in those states (unless you are a resident of that state and the magazine was made before the ban).

If the USCG find one on your boat there, they will hail a local LE officer who will place you under arrest.

That is the bottom line.

Just look up the laws.

You will need to know if any permit or license is required in those states for possession of the type of arm you wish to bring.

And you will need to know if there are any restrictions on the type of arm you wish to bring.

It is pretty simple, since you live in VA, you just need to look up: NC, SC, GA.

FL is not a problem. No permit or license required. Few restrictions, if any.

MD, DC are problematic for you. And ...do not even think about going north.

Hope this helps
J

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by John Drake

In NY, most types of AR's are not legal. Semi-auto magazines can only have a maximum capacity of SEVEN rounds. In MD, it may be 10.
helps

NY allows possession of 10 round magazines. You can not have more than 7 rounds of ammunition on the firearm. This was done because too many manufactures don't offer 7 round magazines and as such the "SAFE" act would have rendered most semiauto pistols inoperable (a condition that would win a challenge, they know it)

In MD you can posses a magazine as big as a house. You can not buy, sell, or transfer said magazine IN the state of MD. You can bring one in though with a capacity over 10 rounds (was 20 up to 10/1) and possession is perfectly legal.

[whocares]

Originally Posted by sailpower

Although well intended, I would be very wary of taking this advice without confirmation.

this is a minefield. Guess I would be tempted to just hide it when I moved!

[Andrew B.]

Originally Posted by John Drake

ANY USCG unit can stop and board your vessel anywhere, anytime. No reason or probably cause needed.

ANY local LE authority just needs to hail a USCG fast boat, and they can board your vessel as well, accompanied by the USCG. If you cruise in these waters, you will find that out very quickly.

Gun laws can be very different state to state. A gun that might be legal in YOUR state, may not be in the next state over. Stating that a gun that can be legally owned somewhere should be fine elsewhere is very ignorant of the law and very bad advice.

In these waters, the first thing the USCG will do on a boarding is ask if you have any weapons. Lie to them and you give them probable cause to tear your boat apart. Show them your firearm, as you should, and you had better be legal in THAT jurisdiction. If they feel it is not, they will simply hail an LE authority and that person will be on your boat in minutes. If your weapon is not legal in the jurisdiction you are in, you will be handcuffed, arrested and taken to jail. It is really that simple and this has been discussed on this board numerous times.

[Even if most often the USCG or LE leave you alone, it would be very bad advice to tell someone to rely on that]

There is only one solution. Research and know ALL the laws. Be legal in every state and local jurisdiction you will go to or sail through.

From VA south, that should not be a big deal...but there are still some issues that the original poster needs to research for himself.

Hope this helps

best

J

Reciprocal it seems. See hotlink.
The warrant said they were looking for guns, and gun related items.
If my LE buds are to be believed, getting a search warrant for anything to do with guns is about as easy as writing a traffic violation.
In this particular case I believe they seized what they actually wanted.
The reporters research papers.

Coast Guard seizes reporter's government records in search | Fox News

[markpierce]

My latest gun purchase shouldn't need to be declared as it's a signaling device.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Wow. Talk about BAD information! This is simply and completely NOT TRUE!

It is true that southern states are generally more accommodating when it comes to possession of a firearm than our northern neighbors. That does not mean that, if you have a carry permit from wherever, it is "no problem." You still need to understand the differences in the laws between the states as you move from one to the next.

For one example, in North Carolina a "no guns" sign carries the weight of law. You can be arrested for carrying a gun into any place that prominently posts such a sign--carry permit or not. In Texas, to carry the weight of law, a "no guns" sign has to adhere to strict requirements. In Florida such signs do not carry the weight of law.

For another example, every state has a different list of places where you are allowed to carry, or prohibited from carrying. Let's say you have a carry permit from Florida, where it is legal to carry a concealed weapon into state office buildings. Go to North Carolina with that permit, and carry your gun into a state office building (which NC prohibits) and you are going to go to jail. They will be completely unimpressed by your insistence that it's "no problem" because you have a carry permit from Florida!

So, bottom line is, you need to understand the laws in each area that you pass through. Again, Handgunlaw.us is probably your best single source for information on the variations between laws in the different states. Good luck.

I know for a fact that if someone comes from another state into NC and they have a concealed carry from that state, it is accepted as if it were issued in NC and the police wil not hassel you..

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I know for a fact that if someone comes from another state into NC and they have a concealed carry from that state, it is accepted as if it were issued in NC and the police wil not hassel you..

While NC honors all other states they have, if I recall correctly, some sticky rules on where you can not carry. Though I seem to remember hearing some of those were relaxed (restaurants for instance).

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by FrankZ

While NC honors all other states they have, if I recall correctly, some sticky rules on where you can not carry. Though I seem to remember hearing some of those were relaxed (restaurants for instance).

Though there are stipulations, a permit holder can now carry to restaurants where alcohol is served, some schools, public gatherings etc. there are websites listing all the reciprocity as well as the details of these aforementioned changes to carry restrictions. This for NC.

[Adodero]

If you ask 5 different people in a gun store about the local laws, chances are you'll get 5 different answers. Most folks don't bother to read the laws themselves, they just listen to what other people say, which is really dangerous. I've talked to people before that were blatantly wrong about the law, some were gun store staff, some regular people, and even some were cops.

The point, do your own research, gun laws vary by state and you are responsible for yourself. The advice given here is bad. The only good advice is to ask an attorney in the state you are visiting. Short of that, do your own research, most states have their laws available online in legal language and more human readable formats. You can make your own judgements and hope they are right.

It's your neck on the line. I only trust myself and someone that says "I am a lawyer and this is legal advice, here is your bill".