I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

[slegg]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

It’s funny. This thread hasn’t been active since 2018 but it popped up in my notices.

So I thought I’d show off my new (but old) Parabellum. It’s never been fired until I got it. The last one made was in 1979 and this one was still in the box and coated in cosmoline. It’s very accurate but the magazines are hard to deal with.


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Where did you find it? I´ve been looking for this gun for a long time. Mauser doesn´t manufacture them anymore. In my opinion it is the most acurate weapon of that time.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by slegg

Where did you find it? I´ve been looking for this gun for a long time. Mauser doesn´t manufacture them anymore. In my opinion it is the most acurate weapon of that time.

Hi slegg I’ll PM you so this doesn’t get “off track”.

[Cadence]

How many people are wearied about Polar Bears.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Which would make it pretty much useless as a pure self defence weapon on a yacht were any of the crew may need to use it. The chances that a yachtie will stand and fire at a moving polar bear? slim.

That is assuming you could buy one, thankfully they are illegal in many countries.

Finally, this thread needs to stay on track and remain cruising related please.

Pete

The point of the thread was that DockHead was going to Greenland, which he did, and Greenland, like Svalbard, requires carrying a long arm that can put down Polar Bears and one has to know how to use the weapon. It is the law.

People are frequently attacked and killed in Svalbard. I can think of two incidents in the last year or so where two men were attacked and one killed.

Later,
Dan

[dannc]

A couple of decades ago I was driving at night and listening to an interview on National Public Radio with a Grizzly bear researcher in Alaska. The researcher was out looking for bears and was sitting on a ridge overlooking the opening of a U shaped valley. He noticed quite a few Grizzly bears were LEAVING the valley. Leaving by running.

There was something big and bad in the valley to force out these Grizzly bears....

The researcher figured he needed to find out what was going on and walked along the ridge to get a better view of what was in the valley.

He made camp, and in the middle of the night, he found out why the Grizzly bears were running out of the valley. It was simple, the other Grizzly's were not the biggest, baddest bear in the valley. In the middle of the night, staying just outside of the light of the campfire, prowled the biggest, baddest bear(BBB) in the valley. The BBB walked around the camp, staying just out of the light, all night long. Making a variety of sounds that made it perfectly clear who was the biggest bad a..ss in the valley, it was not the man, and the man needed to leave.

In the morning, the man left the valley to the biggest, baddest bear.

The BBB could easily have killed the man but choose not too. Not sure if the man had stayed another night if the bear would have made the same choice...

I can't do the story justice. The way the man told the story made the hair raise on the back of my neck and I was safe and warm in my truck as I drove home, far, far away from any Grizzly bears.

Later,
Dan

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by dannc

US law enforcement, and the officers I saw in the UK, where using auto loaders. .... If the PoPo can carry a pistol as a self defense weapon in the environment they have to work, I think that is good enough.

Well I see US LEO all the time at the range, 99% of them can't hit the broad side of a barn at arms length. I typically fire more rounds in a competition or training weekend than LEO does in their entire career.

Personally I've never understood why LEO went to auto loaders except to make up for incompetence. They are definitely more likely to fail, but they carry more rounds so you can fire 17 and maybe put one in the 5 ring lol

On the other hand, there's a GBI officer I've shot with who uses a revolver in competition and he can reload it faster than I can reload an autoloader. Bloody amazing.

(I've legally carried a concealed handgun in the UK in about 2008)

Originally Posted by dannc

I have seen a revolver have a problem firing a round. It was scary. Very scary. First round fired but the bullet got jammed in between the cylinder and barrel. All of the bullet energy turned to heat and there were five more rounds in the cylinder. It was not pretty and the weapon was useless until the cylinder could be force open.

That's called a squib. It can happen with any firearm, its not a function of the action. Look on youtube for some squibs during IDPA and race gun competition in auto loaders. Scary indeed! I saw one turn the barrel of a Sig into that thing that happens when Bugs sticks the carrot down Elmer's barrel, peeled back like a banana.

Originally Posted by dannc

Problems feeding in a good quality pistol with good quality ammo should not happen. If it does, it only takes a second to clear and keep on going. Not a hard skill to learn.

Again, its not a matter of the quality of the weapon, and not even the quality of the round, although perhaps a tiny bit more so. The big factors are storage and use. Self defence/emergency only weapons are typically stored improperly, magazine springs fully compressed, and hardly/never used. Ladies are especially bad as they tend to carry the weapon in a purse. Dump out your lady's purse sometime, and see how much crap is in the bottom. Now imagine that sticking to the lubricant on the weapon's surfaces. Not good.

Secondarily is "limp wristing". If you don't hold an auto loader properly, ie with a firm grip and a solid wrist with good bone alignment, it is very easy to cause that second round to jamb. The action requires the counter-force of your hand/wrist/arm to operate correctly. Not so a revolver.

Originally Posted by dannc

If the weapon is for self defense, it should be used, not abused, nor should it be stored where it will collect dirt. Not hard to do and if your life depends on the tool, keeping it in working order is paramount.

Well I 100% agree, obviously. But there's "should be" and reality. The reality is that most of the time they aren't.

Originally Posted by dannc

I have heard about officers, WAY back in the day, with revolvers, whose rounds had tarnished to a point they could not easily be ejected from the cylinder.

Quite possibly. As I mentioned I shoot a pretty hot load in IHMSA and I've had difficult to remove brass. However with a revolver you'd still be able to fire those 5 or 6 rounds. If that happened with an autoloader you'd maybe get the one off. Firing the next hole in a revolver doesn't depend on properly ejecting the prior round or feeding the next one. Its just there. That's my point.

Originally Posted by dannc

Carrying a pistol with a round in the chamber is just not a big deal. There are gazzillions of holsters out there that will keep the trigger covered to prevent an accidental discharge. There is no difference with a pistol carried with a round in the chamber or a DAO revolver. Pull the trigger and the weapon go boom.

You post some things that leads me to question your expertise with firearms, particularly handguns, or the level of experience with inexperienced firearms users (which is primarily what we're discussing here). Carrying an autoloader with a round in the chamber, cocked, is definitely a big deal. Have you ever seen someone put a round in their leg because they didn't know how to draw properly? I have. I've seen plenty go into the floor or the bench because of the same thing. Many (most?) experienced firearms users don't know how to carry and draw safely, let alone the less experienced. Its not just a matter of yanking it out and pulling the trigger.

A DAO revolver is going to have a much higher trigger pull than an auto loader, particularly something modern. My carry revolvers are probably a little lower than typical, they are around 9lbs (12lbs stock). My target revolvers in SA mode and auto loaders are <3lbs. In a self defense weapon you want a higher trigger force.

Originally Posted by dannc

SOME or most revolvers can be thrown off a building without them firing. I think that is also true of modern, and even not so modern, pistols. Not sure this is a big requirement for a self defense weapon. I don't intend to be running across the roof of a 10 story building. I am not Batman!

I can't think of a revolver design that isn't safe in that case, but my point was with a full magazine the revolver, double action mode, ready to go, you can mistreat the thing like crazy as long as you don't pull the trigger, including dropping the weapon. That's NOT true for all designs of auto loader. Some, but not all. Even with the "safety" on an autoloader can sometimes go off when subject to shock. Many don't have safeties (about half of my 6 or 7 auto loaders don't have a safety).

Originally Posted by dannc

Yep, handling the recoil in a high power hand gun load is a problem, and for the big bears it might not be enough power.

Shotgun or rifle is what would be bet for the big bears, though recoil management can still be an issue as can the manual of arms for a pump shotgun. A revolver or pistol is easier to use than a pump shotgun that is for sure.

Later,
Dan

Indeed! I don't disagree at all, which was part of my point. Still, I'd MUCH rather have a big, heavy, .44mag revolver with some hot loads, and maybe a speed loader in my pocket than a Desert Eagle or the CZ posted. The single most important thing for a self defense weapon is reliability. Period. Nothing else is anywhere near as important as knowing, 100%, that thing is going bang when you pull the trigger.

My buddy has a Sako elephant gun. I've fired it. Once was enough. Now that would take out two polar bears in a row. Problem is if there was a 3rd bear, after you picked yourself up, you'd have to reload as its a single shot. ($5 each time you pull the trigger).

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Which would make it pretty much useless as a pure self defence weapon on a yacht were any of the crew may need to use it. The chances that a yachtie will stand and fire at a moving polar bear? slim.

That is assuming you could buy one, thankfully they are illegal in many countries.

Finally, this thread needs to stay on track and remain cruising related please.

Pete

I agree. I would never try and use it as a self defense weapon, its a hand cannon. But the conversation was about what was a suitable weapon. My point was a large and powerful enough handgun to use against a charging polar bear is going to be a weapon for experts. Not some 10mm or .45acp 1911 you happen to have for pinking.

[flightlead404]

[QUOTE=Tetepare;3582016...This thread started about a satisfying the mandatory gun for Greenland.

As such, lubricant and trigger guard size is more important than other aspects ...[/QUOTE]

One of my pistols is a Russian IZH. It has a very large trigger guard, its designed to be fired while wearing heavy gloves.

I would suggest looking for a weapon that has a similar guard, and taking your gloves with you when you are shopping to ensure your finger slips easily and naturally into the guard AND PUTS YOUR FINGER IN THE CORRECT POSITION. The trigger should be on the first pad, not in the "crook" of the knuckle and not on your finger tip. Heavy gloves, which I assume you would be wearing anywhere you're likely to encounter polar bears, will make your fingers fatter obviously, but will change the reach and wrap around of your hand around the grip.

The last thing you want to be doing is struggling to get your gloves off when you're being charged.