Life jackets cannot be in closets?

[james247]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Just a small note that Canada Coast Guard regulations, are not the same as US coast guard regulations.

Life jackets can to stored in lockers on us coast guard inspected commercial vessels.

For US recreational boats, there needs to be a life jacket "Readily Accessible" for each person on the boat, at all times, when the boat is away from the dock. Other life jackets may be stored in lockers.

Life jackets stored in bags or inside lockers do not meet the US coast guard definition of "readily accessible".

Here is a link to a US coast guard site related to life jackets. Scroll down to the part about accessibility: Life Jacket Wear / Wearing your Life Jacket

I find this debate about what the government deems safe as incredible boring.
Responsibility for the safety of crew, passengers and ship used to be that of the skipper/captain.
Every time I leave the berth in the marina a short explanation of the safety equipment is given - where the life jackets are , the life raft and the grab bag and flares are located. All safely stored so they don't get underfoot when not required and not flying around the cabin or cockpit as one tacks.
I maintain deck shoes are equally important as life jackets as are sailing gloves. Prevent the split toe and the burned hands and control is generally maintained. It's the simple things and I really don't need a government to tell me that.
I regard the safety of personnel and boat as my primary responsibility.
I often reflect on whether I comply with all my standards and don't really care what the governments rules are.
Mine are higher controlled by common-sense. There are different rules when the wind blows 5 to 10 and when it's piping over 25.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by james247

Responsibility for the safety of crew, passengers and ship used to be that of the skipper/captain.

That hasn't changed.

The thread is (was?) about the letter of the law, and compliance with that so as to avoid a ticket.

[jmschmidt]

james247 responded to my posting by providing a link to a website which is not an official US Coast Guard site but is actually a trick commercial site designed to make the viewer believe it stipulates the USCG regulation (Public Law) on the meaning of the requirement for life jackets to be "Readily Assessable.”

Not only that but it uses the term “should” throughout, not “must” or “required” as would an actual regulation. See for yourselves.

Life Jacket Wear / Wearing your Life Jacket

Commercial websites that pay Google and other search engines for ad placement are rampant. These sights are designed to trick searchers into believing they are viewing an official US government or other official agency’s sight. Only some, probably the honest ones, have the letters "AD" in a little box on their postings.

Don’t be like a delivery captain I know in Key West whose passport had expired and he needed it pronto for a delivery gig. Key West to Hawaii, big bucks!
He went to “official.us.gov.supperfastandveryspeedy.passports .com, (probably located in India) or some such website and charged $300 on his credit card. Two weeks later, still no passport. He could have driven to Miami and got one at the Federal Building and been back to Key West in a day.

[Lepke]

Coast Guard people are just doing their job. They are following their command mandates. Safety inspections are a little like stop and frisk. It makes people aware and stops some safety problems before they become fatal. I've probably been in 30+ safety inspection boardings and never had a Coast Guard member be less than professional and polite. I've never been fined, even counting a couple times when I should have. Fuel on the water.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Lepke

Coast Guard people are just doing their job. They are following their command mandates. Safety inspections are a little like stop and frisk. It makes people aware and stops some safety problems before they become fatal. I've probably been in 30+ safety inspection boardings and never had a Coast Guard member be less than professional and polite. I've never been fined, even counting a couple times when I should have. Fuel on the water.

They just wanted to see and old CG boat.

[hellosailor]

When or if someone was ever given a USCG citation for "failure to have life jackets readily accessible" the USCG miht very well find themselves losing the court battle over that one. Our state and federal courts have ruled fairly consistently that regulations can only be enforced to the extent that they are not "arbitrary and capricious" and that includes any vague phrases being interpreted AGAINST the party that wrote them.

What's readily accessible to the man who knows where the fire axe is? "Here's Johnny!"

Or, the beer is free. Just not readily accessible: Or would you like to buy a bottle opener?

Someone told me I should get a new PFD, mine is old and faded. I said why? This is my lucky PFD, haven't gone overboard in it yet.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

When or if someone was ever given a USCG citation for "failure to have life jackets readily accessible" the USCG miht very well find themselves losing the court battle over that one. Our state and federal courts have ruled fairly consistently that regulations can only be enforced to the extent that they are not "arbitrary and capricious" and that includes any vague phrases being interpreted AGAINST the party that wrote them.

What's readily accessible to the man who knows where the fire axe is? "Here's Johnny!"

Or, the beer is free. Just not readily accessible: Or would you like to buy a bottle opener?

Someone told me I should get a new PFD, mine is old and faded. I said why? This is my lucky PFD, haven't gone overboard in it yet.

Pay the fine and buy new jackets if that should happen. Faded generally means the cloth will separate. Use old ones to put on a pendent and hang overboard if people are swimming. Gives them something to grab if the current gets them.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Pay the fine and buy new jackets if that should happen. Faded generally means the cloth will separate. Use old ones to put on a pendent and hang overboard if people are swimming. Gives them something to grab if the current gets them.

well look, if its fine for a cruise liner in the care of 1,000s of ppl to put life jackets in closets, I think its being overdone

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

well look, if its fine for a cruise liner in the care of 1,000s of ppl to put life jackets in closets, I think its being overdone

Where is the cruise liner flagged. Even so they are inspected vessels which fall in an entirely different category. It is over done, the CG is only doing their job.
It may save someone's life. What can it cost to replace a half a dozen worn out jackets or make them accessible.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Where is the cruise liner flagged. Even so they are inspected vessels which fall in an entirely different category. It is over done, the CG is only doing their job.
It may save someone's life. What can it cost to replace a half a dozen worn out jackets or make them accessible.

'category'
the journey is the same

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

'category'
the journey is the same

That's so. I just can't see CG bashing. I'm surprised they have the time to check. Drugs seems to be their major job. Although if I were sinking I'd like to have them around. I would bet in the US the locals are more likely to ticket someone for that type of thing.

[hellosailor]

Pay the fine? What fine? I didn't say a Coastie complained, I said "someone" said it was faded. And it is.

It is the nature of red paints and dyes, including fabric dye, to absorb UV and sunlight and break down faster than almost any other color will. Red cloth fades quickly. Heavy red nylon? Can take a lot of fading without the "cloth" punking out.

Thanks, but I know when cloth is worn, or simply faded.

And the Coasties that have seen it, were simply happy to see one being worn. If it ain't visibly tattered...it ain't their problem.

[jlcnuke]

So, after reading this thread, what I've concluded is that "some" people thinking having life jackets enclosed in anything (closet, storage bin, etc) is a violation of the law and others think "readily accessible" is not nearly that stringent, despite a "should" statement on a web-page.

That begs the question, has anyone ever had the CG actually state that they were not allowed to have a lifejacket in a closet/etc that is otherwise readily accessible and not locked/etc? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for "internet lawyering" but the truth is that it comes down to what the CG actually thinks the rules are and how they enforce them.

If no one is getting cited/corrected by the CG for having PFDs in a closet (and I may not have a ton of experience on the water, but I rarely see PFDs "out" on any boat on the water so it would seem to me that such a citation would be practically routine if that was the rule/interpretation/standard) then it would seem those saying the "should" is just a suggestion are correct in at least the "what matters" point of view.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Heavy red nylon? Can take a lot of fading without the "cloth" punking out.

...

And the Coasties that have seen it, were simply happy to see one being worn. If it ain't visibly tattered...it ain't their problem.

We have red Mustang auto-inflating jackets, going on 8 years of seasonal use. The red is still very vivid, and there's only a little grime and wear around the neck.

Anyway, that's just the cover; what counts is the bladder inside! It's recommended that you manually inflate your inflatable PFD once a year, and leave it inflated for 16 hours. (if you can, don't blow it up with your breath; use a pump or a compressor - carefully! - so you don't get moisture inside the bladder.) If it's still inflated after 16 hours, you're good.

More on PFD inspection and maintenance.