Lifting Out MOB Casualty Using Life Jacket Harness

[John_Trusty]

After reading both threads, I would like to pose some questions to our experts:
1 - What is your opinion of using a swim platform / sugar-scoop transom for recoveries in calmer conditions? In calmer conditions, or even a long-period seaway, our swim platform is only 20 cm over the water, so even a unconscious victim could be slid aboard. In a chop, this would be suicide as even my little boat lifts the transom a good 3 feet as she rocks. Of course, there is the problem of the binnacle to get them to the cockpit proper. A semi-submersible inflatable ramp could be rigged to make this easier, but not so much for high sterns. At least the recovery is horizontal.

2 - Have you considered the sling / par-buckling methods on the side of the boat? Having watched a few videos, it looks uncomfortable as hell to be rolled up, and perhaps smashed into, the side of the vessel. Again, horizontal and low risk of losing the victim halfway through the hoist.

To Kenomac's point, you need a recovery device that (1) sinks below the water (partially) to scoop up an unconscious body, (2) is strong and well-secured to lift that heavy body, and (3) easily stored on a small boat to be quickly deployed single-handed. Not an easy set of requirements for a vessel not purpose-built for recovering people like a rescue lifeboat or helicopter.

[ArmyDaveNY]

I think your idea of retrofitting stronger buckles to the crotch straps is the most efficient method. It will obviate the need for additional engineering and additional bulk. It is probably the fastest and quickest method. Good luck with this and thanks for bringing this to our attention. I have long been suspect of some of the commercial straps, buckles, etc. I have seen on the market.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

After reading both threads, I would like to pose some questions to our experts:
1 - What is your opinion of using a swim platform / sugar-scoop transom for recoveries in calmer conditions? In calmer conditions, or even a long-period seaway, our swim platform is only 20 cm over the water, so even a unconscious victim could be slid aboard. In a chop, this would be suicide as even my little boat lifts the transom a good 3 feet as she rocks. Of course, there is the problem of the binnacle to get them to the cockpit proper. A semi-submersible inflatable ramp could be rigged to make this easier, but not so much for high sterns. At least the recovery is horizontal.

I have actually recovered an MOB over my swim platform and this is the ideal way to do it in calm weather. Roll him on, job done. But even a little chop produces the effect you mention.

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

2 - Have you considered the sling / par-buckling methods on the side of the boat? Having watched a few videos, it looks uncomfortable as hell to be rolled up, and perhaps smashed into, the side of the vessel. Again, horizontal and low risk of losing the victim halfway through the hoist.

I totally agree. I haven't tried parbuckling, and maybe it's the best realistic way to deal with a victim you can't get a sling on, but it looks awful to me, for the reason you mention. This is why we swing the boom out -- to get the casualty safely clear of the side of the vessel while he's being lifted. You could kill him by smashing him against the side if the boat is rolling heavily.

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

To Kenomac's point, you need a recovery device that (1) sinks below the water (partially) to scoop up an unconscious body, (2) is strong and well-secured to lift that heavy body, and (3) easily stored on a small boat to be quickly deployed single-handed. Not an easy set of requirements for a vessel not purpose-built for recovering people like a rescue lifeboat or helicopter.

Agree.

[Paul L]

If you have a Galerider like drogue you can use it as a sling

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "We have in our crew this year a doctor who is a specialist in expedition medicine, who stated that the position the victim is lifted out with using the Life Sling is the most dangerous possible way to do it, possibly leading to heart attacks. "

What, precisely, is it about the position of the victim being hoisted in a Life Sling that might induce a heart attack?

TP

[a64pilot]

You have a Dr. Aboard, ask him what he thinks of a Hoyer lift sling.
When our Son was in the hospital we had to lift him from the bed to his wheel chair via a sling and a hoist hung from the ceiling, they called it a Hoyer lift.
Assuming victim can climb into the sling I think it’s viable.

Or way back in the day in Attack Aviation we had to come up with a way to self recover shot down Pilots, and we came up with using a good climbing harness. The other Apache would land and you would clip onto a step on the side of the aircraft and ride out that way, a climbing harness was strong enough to pull G’s even though it was not comfortable and you can’t fall out even if inverted.
A full harness, not a seat.
Either wear a harness, and an inflatable vest, or have a vest out on a harness or similar, or copy a harness for your vest. I think a harness and a vest may be more logical.

Something like this, what we used had no padding was just made out of seat belt material, and likely why it wasn’t comfortable when you were hanging from it.
https://www.campsaver.com/petzl-full...BoCEHoQAvD_BwE

[roland stockham]

2 comments.

Do not try simply beefing up the crotch strap. If you need a stronger harness for lifting then it should have proper leg loops otherwise important bits of anatomy may get crushed!
A traditional technique is to clip the storm jib tack an clue to 2 strong points on deck then attach the head to a lifting tackle from the boom (can be main sheet). A weight on the head helps it to sink so the casualty can be drawn over it. When the head is lifted it rolls the casualty up the side of the hull keeping them in the ideal horizontal position. They finish up on the side deck with the sail protecting them. It works well on a traditional narrow beam boat with a long boom. Not sure how well it will adapt to modern boats or cat's but may be worth playing with.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

How do the Coast Guard/SAR services lift people out? Other than with a stretcher?

Seems to me you could have a different kind of sling -- with four legs, two under your arms and two behind your knees, and this would be a lot safer and more comfortable. Something like that.

Each agency seems to have developed their own methods, they are really in 3 camps, the 2 part sling, the cage, the stokes litter. The crew members are the swimmer and the winchman

The cage requires little explanation, the swimmer maneuvers the basket under the victim, where the beauty of this device allows the victim to be in almost any position. By the limits of the basket cant fall out.

The stokes litter or stretcher is a tube and rigid mesh arrangement that is really meant more ambulatory use. You can attach to the litter all the things a medic has decided are immediately necessary to save the life. We might be talking about drips to rehydrate, heart monitoring equipment or oxygen. The swimmer or medic usually goes up with the litter to monitor the patient, if necessary guide through trees etc. If you have a broken leg, or broken ribs the litter is ideal, But they are about 7ft long and not always a good fit with smaller helos. Fine with Sikorsky's and Bell 412 sizes, clumsy with single engine Hueys, impossible with smaller Bells some Sheriff's Depts would run.

The 2 part sling seems to me to be the most practical and its definitely the most popular. It is really 2 wide padded slings kept short enough so that the angle between the two slings ensures that it is difficult for the patient of average size to slip through. Its compact and collapsible so it can be available from a sail locker or lazarette.

With both parts of the sling and him/herself attached to the hook the swimmer gets the first part under the back of the victim beyond under the arms. The second part is then guided under the feet through to the thighs. The powered hoist is given enough up to allow the swimmer to optimise their position together. The hook should be visible at the swimmers head and can look down on to a now reclined victim. They have face to face contact and the victim cant see down.

The swimmer signals the winchman to hoist when happy with how both are situated. If the patient is unconscious the head is supported and protected with swimmers gloved hand as they are slid back into the helo.

There is one remaining way I can recall. Ive seen SAS abseil off a cliff with a kind of jury rigged arrangement made from a doubled rope and shackles to their utility vest. But it requires technique and these ppl just arent of average strength or skill. But of note they are single point lift and the operator is quite reclined

[a64pilot]

USCG out practicing the other day, it is hard to see, but appears to be a climbing type of harness with leg loops by the way he is sitting and not being hung with his back arched.

I’d want what the swimmer is wearing, not what the victim is put into.
Seems a lot more comfortable they way the swimmer is positioned

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

USCG out practicing the other day, it is hard to see, but appears to be a climbing type of harness with leg loops by the way he is sitting and not being hung with his back arched.Attachment 173725Attachment 173726

I cant really see it but if its what I think it is thats what abseiling soldiers use where part of the mission is to abseil out of the helo and potentially back in.

There are 3 parts one small sling for each thigh and a lift point onto the webbing around the COG of the soldier. For soldiers this allows that they can still wear their bergens and sling their weapons, water, radios, etc. You might be talking 180lbs of gear and the weight of the soldier.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by syPhilos

even tethered, he can still fall overboard.

Then your tether is too long. The tether should be short enough that he cannot fall into the water.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Quote: "We have in our crew this year a doctor who is a specialist in expedition medicine, who stated that the position the victim is lifted out with using the Life Sling is the most dangerous possible way to do it, possibly leading to heart attacks. "

What, precisely, is it about the position of the victim being hoisted in a Life Sling that might induce a heart attack?

TP

This is a well-known problem discussed in different things I've read. It's a syndrome where a victim in shock or suffering from hypothermia can have all the blood run down to the legs, if he's lifted vertically, which can kill people in that condition.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

Each agency seems to have developed their own methods, they are really in 3 camps, the 2 part sling, the cage, the stokes litter. The crew members are the swimmer and the winchman

The cage requires little explanation, the swimmer maneuvers the basket under the victim, where the beauty of this device allows the victim to be in almost any position. By the limits of the basket cant fall out.

The stokes litter or stretcher is a tube and rigid mesh arrangement that is really meant more ambulatory use. You can attach to the litter all the things a medic has decided are immediately necessary to save the life. We might be talking about drips to rehydrate, heart monitoring equipment or oxygen. The swimmer or medic usually goes up with the litter to monitor the patient, if necessary guide through trees etc. If you have a broken leg, or broken ribs the litter is ideal, But they are about 7ft long and not always a good fit with smaller helos. Fine with Sikorsky's and Bell 412 sizes, clumsy with single engine Hueys, impossible with smaller Bells some Sheriff's Depts would run.

The 2 part sling seems to me to be the most practical and its definitely the most popular. It is really 2 wide padded slings kept short enough so that the angle between the two slings ensures that it is difficult for the patient of average size to slip through. Its compact and collapsible so it can be available from a sail locker or lazarette.

With both parts of the sling and him/herself attached to the hook the swimmer gets the first part under the back of the victim beyond under the arms. The second part is then guided under the feet through to the thighs. The powered hoist is given enough up to allow the swimmer to optimise their position together. The hook should be visible at the swimmers head and can look down on to a now reclined victim. They have face to face contact and the victim cant see down.

The swimmer signals the winchman to hoist when happy with how both are situated. If the patient is unconscious the head is supported and protected with swimmers gloved hand as they are slid back into the helo.

There is one remaining way I can recall. Ive seen SAS abseil off a cliff with a kind of jury rigged arrangement made from a doubled rope and shackles to their utility vest. But it requires technique and these ppl just arent of average strength or skill. But of note they are single point lift and the operator is quite reclined

Thanks, very interesting and useful!


Looks like you could rig something like that up with two life slings.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

2 comments.

Do not try simply beefing up the crotch strap. If you need a stronger harness for lifting then it should have proper leg loops otherwise important bits of anatomy may get crushed!
A traditional technique is to clip the storm jib tack an clue to 2 strong points on deck then attach the head to a lifting tackle from the boom (can be main sheet). A weight on the head helps it to sink so the casualty can be drawn over it. When the head is lifted it rolls the casualty up the side of the hull keeping them in the ideal horizontal position. They finish up on the side deck with the sail protecting them. It works well on a traditional narrow beam boat with a long boom. Not sure how well it will adapt to modern boats or cat's but may be worth playing with.

We discussed that above. Parbuckling. I haven't tried it, but I don't like the idea of rolling the casualty into the side of the boat like that. Seems like it could be violent if the boat is rolling.

[TrentePieds]

Re: #27

Thanx, Dockhead :-) I thot it might be useful to be specific about this, because it is not often mentioned explicitly. To keep an injured person horizontal is one of the fundamentals, and whatever method we use for recoveries that should be borne in mind.

There are people about, and I am one of them, that might occasionally show a blood pressure reading of, say, 105/65. If I am prone, with that sort of reading, and rise abruptly, I can faint for the simple reason that the pump doesn't have time to develop enuff head to service what little brain I have left. In my bedroom that's obviously not much of a problem, but fainting while in the water due to shock while being rescued would most likely be deadly.

In the waters where I sail and for the type of sailing I do, I advocate parbuckling for that reason, recognizing the inherent danger of breaking bones by doing it. Again, because of my specific circumstances, the probability of breaking a victims skull seems far less than that of doing damage with a vertical hoist.

Thanx for starting the thread. It is invaluable :-)!

TP