Managing sleep needs

[chrisr]

i was lying awake last night, thinking about sleep (the only benefit i've found so far to growing older is one needs less sleep...), and thinking how sleeping on boats can sometimes be quite difficult - especially while making a passage

a sleep deprived sailor is unhappy, unpleasant and unsafe...so how do we manage this ?

of course any boat on passage needs a good watch system, but how do our bodies adapt to this ?

seems to me there are 3 core requirements ;

1. the ability to fall asleep quickly, no matter what environment we are in (noisy, wet, moving etc). one of my top crew back in the race days was well known for his ability to sleep while hiking on the rail going to windward in 25k. it's rare to this degree, but we all need to be able to do it

2. the ability to sleep soundly in this noisy mobile environment, but wake quickly to any change. a new noise or movement can be the first sign of danger and you've gota be able to pick this up - even while asleep

3. the ability to go from sound asleep to fully awake & functional very quickly. ones response to a shout of 'HELP' from on deck cannot be to shuffle around bleary eyed looking for coffee

i think all long term cruisers / passage makers will have developed these abilities to a greater or lesser extent (otherwise we wouldn't keep doing it would we ?)...but how did we do this ? is it genetic (like the crew guy in (1) or something we can develop over time ?

in know that in the case of my wife (aka the owner) and myself, it's been developed over a long time. in her case as a mother of 4 young children working rotating roster as a registered nurse and in my case as a watchkeeping ship's officer and ocean racer...but how do we teach these abilities to folk who need them pretty much immediately ?

how did you develop them ? what hints can we pass on to the myriad of newbies buying their dream and sailing over the horizon ?

just some thoughts. now it's time for my morning coffee...cheers,

[JPA Cate]

As an aid in such training, we had advice from a doctor, who suggested using melatonin, a pituitary supplement. For us, we each had a sleeping watch around dark. One took the 1 mg. dose when one brushed teeth before sacking out. In three days, we were into our new schedules and didn't use it after that. We do 6 on 6 off, in a loose way during the day, but actually are fairly strict about getting at least 5 hrs. straight sleep for each of us, and naps are allowed in the daytime, as needed.

Most infantry soldiers have learned to sleep while waiting, it is something people teach themselves, but to me, the melatonin helped. It is available OTC in the US. Mostly comes in 3 mg doses, now, but we have a pill cutter, and cut them in half. You should not get into using them every night (a friend became dependent on them), but for the first 3 nights of a passage, or for those occasional awkward nights when you can't get to sleep, it works a treat.

Ann

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by chrisr

i was lying awake last night, thinking about sleep (the only benefit i've found so far to growing older is one needs less sleep...), and thinking how sleeping on boats can sometimes be quite difficult - especially while making a passage

a sleep deprived sailor is unhappy, unpleasant and unsafe...so how do we manage this ?

of course any boat on passage needs a good watch system, but how do our bodies adapt to this ?

seems to me there are 3 core requirements ;

1. the ability to fall asleep quickly, no matter what environment we are in (noisy, wet, moving etc). one of my top crew back in the race days was well known for his ability to sleep while hiking on the rail going to windward in 25k. it's rare to this degree, but we all need to be able to do it

2. the ability to sleep soundly in this noisy mobile environment, but wake quickly to any change. a new noise or movement can be the first sign of danger and you've gota be able to pick this up - even while asleep

3. the ability to go from sound asleep to fully awake & functional very quickly. ones response to a shout of 'HELP' from on deck cannot be to shuffle around bleary eyed looking for coffee

i think all long term cruisers / passage makers will have developed these abilities to a greater or lesser extent (otherwise we wouldn't keep doing it would we ?)...but how did we do this ? is it genetic (like the crew guy in (1) or something we can develop over time ?

in know that in the case of my wife (aka the owner) and myself, it's been developed over a long time. in her case as a mother of 4 young children working rotating roster as a registered nurse and in my case as a watchkeeping ship's officer and ocean racer...but how do we teach these abilities to folk who need them pretty much immediately ?

how did you develop them ? what hints can we pass on to the myriad of newbies buying their dream and sailing over the horizon ?

just some thoughts. now it's time for my morning coffee...cheers,

Actually "one" needs more sleep as you grow older unless you do like most older folks and do very little exercise or physical activity during your day.

Try running/jogging 3-4 miles plus 6-8 pullups and 20-30 pushups and you will sleep well at some point.

I like 9-10 hours a night.

I finally have made a larger sleeping area on my small boat which should help at least when at anchor in a protected spot.

A couple weeks ago I sailed 11 hours after working half the day and I had no problem sleeping........

I'm getting close to 70 years old also.

As far as Melatonin goes, I take anywhere from 5-15 mg on the boat and at my apartment and at the house if need. The gummie chewables seem to work the best

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Vitafusio...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

[toddster8]

I've known a couple of young colleagues of whom I was quite envious. They could sleep any old time the opportunity arose. On a lunch break. On a 20 minute drive down the mountain (head bouncing off the window). While waiting for a chromatogram. Although at least one of them lived the 24/7 lifestyle in Andalucia, and that was all the sleep they ever got.

In general, I find sleeping on the boat easy. It's got that old rockin' the cradle thing going. Unless the moorage is next to a major highway or railroad. (Both, at the moment) I've tried melatonin the last couple of nights and it seems to do the trick.

[Manateeman]

If you absolutely have to...we’ve heard taking an allergy pill, Benadryl...will work.
It’s a drug. It will leave you groggy. We are not doctors so ask your physician first. Alcohol messes up your sleep cycle . A dark room will help. There is a lot written on bedtime routines but it seems the first few days of any long passage finds everybody in a fog.
Manatees sleep on the bottom for 15 minutes, then come up for a breath, then drift down to sound sleep again.
Who know how they do it.
Happy trails to you.
Mark and the crew

[bensolomon]

You can't "teach" sleep habits. In terms of getting people acclimated to a passage, it's usually not an emergency to go on passage, therefore the crew can begin to adjust their sleeping habits prior to departure to match the watch schedule. This is what we recommend for travelers to different time zones.

Also, napping is never good for sleep quality. In other words, sleep needs to be consolidated for it to be effective. I'm not saying an occasional afternoon nap is bad, but as a chronic habit, napping is terrible for sleep quality. In other words, limiting naps for crew will leave them tired enough to fall asleep and stay asleep.

In terms of crew and sleeping habits.....don't fight physiology. Some people are morning larks by nature and some are night owls. I don't rotate shifts. I usually have an early morning riser do the 4-8 shifts (both AM & PM) anyone can do 8-12, and I always do 12-4, as an example. ( I don't trust anyone else at night, and I'm used to working night shifts).

Last thing, eye masks and ear plugs work very well. The foam ear plugs are good enough to reduce decibels to sleeping range, and you can still hear loud noises.

[Sparx]

A few thoughts to be additive to the discussion...

I find using a disciplined process to intentionally relax is quite helpful. It is a way of signaling my body and especially my mind that now is the time to sleep.

On board I embrace the motion of the boat, allowing and inviting the boat to sing it's lullaby to me. I find I can be conscious of the boat motion and noises while sleeping.
I am often aware of a tack or change in the wind without fully awakening.

On passage I tell the off watch it is their RESPONSIBILITY to sleep and be fully rested for their coming watch. This assignment gives some people the needed purpose to their off watch time to focus on rest.

[AKA-None]

If I recall correctly if you drop off to sleep rapidly then you may be sleep deprived

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by bensolomon

You can't "teach" sleep habits. In terms of getting people acclimated to a passage, it's usually not an emergency to go on passage, therefore the crew can begin to adjust their sleeping habits prior to departure to match the watch schedule. This is what we recommend for travelers to different time zones.

Also, napping is never good for sleep quality. In other words, sleep needs to be consolidated for it to be effective. I'm not saying an occasional afternoon nap is bad, but as a chronic habit, napping is terrible for sleep quality. In other words, limiting naps for crew will leave them tired enough to fall asleep and stay asleep.

In terms of crew and sleeping habits.....don't fight physiology. Some people are morning larks by nature and some are night owls. I don't rotate shifts. I usually have an early morning riser do the 4-8 shifts (both AM & PM) anyone can do 8-12, and I always do 12-4, as an example. ( I don't trust anyone else at night, and I'm used to working night shifts).

Last thing, eye masks and ear plugs work very well. The foam ear plugs are good enough to reduce decibels to sleeping range, and you can still hear loud noises.

This is exactly what I do. There’s no point fighting the natural tendencies people have. I wake up before dawn easily. My girlfriend? She can stay up until about dawn but she’ll sleep all morning. So it’s perfect for doing watch keeping.

during the day, I mostly take it. We pass off here and there. But she’ll do that awful overnight where I would never make it. And it’s not a big deal to her. Then I wake up well before dawn and take it all the way through late morning when she starts to wake up.

With even more crew and more diverse sleeping patterns, it just gets easier.

[JPA Cate]

Yes, Chotu, I'm on from midnight to 6, and I just love watching the world come to life. If possible, I let Jim sleep in till 7 or 8.

But, if I'm tired, I'll take a nap. For me, the naps work.*

I really like, if you're taking on unknown crew, emphasizing that it is their duty to sleep, to be refreshed for their watch.

The whole question of taking on unknown crew is very fraught for us, and we only have taken crew one time, and he was fairly well known to us, and was really great crew, too.

Ann

On Edit: *Thinking about this and having read it is not what bensolomon recommended--and I trust his input--I think it may be that the underlying reason I need naps is because I had untreated "severe" sleep apnea. I just recently started using a positive air pressure machine, and it is changing my sleep. And Jim's, too, for I no longer snore!

Ann

[bensolomon]

On Edit: *Thinking about this and having read it is not what bensolomon recommended--and I trust his input--I think it may be that the underlying reason I need naps is because I had untreated "severe" sleep apnea. I just recently started using a positive air pressure machine, and it is changing my sleep. And Jim's, too, for I no longer snore!

Ann[/QUOTE]

Ann,

You are correct, excessive daytime somnolence is a symptom of obstructive sleep apnea. In that setting, napping is almost a means of survival. Now that you're on cpap, hopefully your need for napping will decrease. Glad you're getting treated and finding relief.

Ben