Medical Emergencies at Remote Cruising Destinations

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

Heart attack is the number one cause of death on Merchant vessels. Figures are out there. Keep googling.

Not surprised - they're over-fed and lead a sedentary lifestyle.

Cruisers and liveaboards on the otherhand seem to be a much more healthy bunch. (Maybe I should exclude liver damage and falls from this statement.)

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Not surprised - they're over-fed and lead a sedentary lifestyle.

Cruisers and liveaboards on the otherhand seem to be a much more healthy bunch. (Maybe I should exclude liver damage and falls from this statement.)

Maybe not so much fact:

Results Of 66 deaths in British shipping from 2003 to 2012, 49 were caused by accidents, which largely affected deck ratings. The fatal accident rate in British shipping increased by 4.7% per annum from 2003, although this was not significant (95% confidence interval: −5.1 to 15.6%). During 2003–12, the fatal accident rate in shipping (14.5 per 100 000) was 21 times that in the general British workforce, 4.7 times that in the construction industry and 13 times that in manufacturing. Of 20 merchant fleets worldwide with population-based fatal accident rates, most have shown large reductions over time.

Fatal accidents and injuries among merchant seafarers worldwide

[GoingWalkabout]

No Cookies | Perth Now

Man rescued after heart attack on yacht

[GoingWalkabout]

Another heart attack on a boat

http://m.journaltimes.com/news/local...ile_touch=true

[GoingWalkabout]

Crew member dies from heart attack during regatta on Lake Michigan | Chicago Sun-Times

Crew Member Dies Of Heart Attack On Lake Michigan

[GoingWalkabout]

They were aboard a 120-footer far off the Central American coast when it happened. "Our owner clutched his chest and keeled over in the saloon," recalls Capt. Dave (who prefers to remain anonymous) "and we were a very long ways from any medical facility. It was clearly a heart attack but there are no paramedics out there." The owner, however, was not only a lucky man but a smart man, too. The captain and two of the crew had advanced first-aid training, he had equipped the yacht with a comprehensive medical kit and, best of all, the yacht was subscribed to an emergency medical support service. Within minutes, the owner was getting both oxygen and intravenous fluids while an emergency-room doctor talked the captain through the procedures over the sat-com phone. The support service also calculated the closest port from which the owner could be flown, and had scheduled a medevac jet even before the captain put down the phone. Thanks to planning, the owner recovered fully. As yachts grow larger and more seaworthy, and owners become more adventurous, a serious onboard medical emergency far from a hospital is a real possibility. The new breed of expedition yachts that incorporate so many mechanical and electronic redundancies in order to provide for self-sufficiency at sea, should be prepared for medical self-reliance, as well.

Is There a Doctor On Board? | Yachting Magazine

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

Heart attack is the number one cause of death on Merchant vessels. Figures are out there. Keep googling.

Please provide data and links!



For me the figures given by the Frankfurt airport report are good enough:

60 Mio passengers each year. Lets say each passenger spends ~2hrs at the airport. On average including security checks, layovers, delays, evening bagage drop-off, etc
=> 120 Mio person-hours per year

A year has 365 * 24 = 8760 hours

That means on average there are ~13700 people at the airport at any given time (120 Mio / 8760). Think of 13700 people living there fulltime.


The airport report listed 14 incidents in 5 years, or 2.8 incidents per year.


13700 people give 2.8 incident per year. So a crew of 2 has 2 * 2.8 / 13700 incidents per year. Thats 0,0004 incidents per year.

That means a crew of "Average Joe & Jane" will use their AED once in ~2500 years.
Since only 5 of the 14 incidents came out without permanent damage, the odds are once in 7000 years one crew member will be saved by an AED and in good health afterwards.

That is of course under the assumption that this average crew has access to emergency doctors and clinics as fast & good as on the airport. Very very unlikely in my view


Or maybe this is just proof that I missed too many Math lessons


Anyone should make an informed decision to get a AED. But I don't think we should spread fear of imminent death just because someone decides that new antifouling is more important than an AED.
Again: Individual risk factors may change everything!


And yes, the Germans were crazy to introduce this regulation on merchant vessels. Just an indicator of too much lobbyism. Nothing special.

[DumnMad]

Going Walkabout - I read those stories and they're pretty irrelevant to your case. The only death was the one on a 19ft boat that was not in a "remote cruising destination"

I will concede that if you have a 120 ft yacht some extra gear to prevent heart failure might be fun - e.g. electric winches, asprins, comfy bed, and some fit crew to do the heavy work. But AED ??? Only if you have diabetes, are obese and eat the wrong food.

[GoingWalkabout]

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[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Please provide data and links!



For me the figures given by the Frankfurt airport report are good enough:

60 Mio passengers each year. Lets say each passenger spends ~2hrs at the airport. On average including security checks, layovers, delays, evening bagage drop-off, etc
=> 120 Mio person-hours per year

A year has 365 * 24 = 8760 hours

That means on average there are ~13700 people at the airport at any given time (120 Mio / 8760). Think of 13700 people living there fulltime.


The airport report listed 14 incidents in 5 years, or 2.8 incidents per year.


13700 people give 2.8 incident per year. So a crew of 2 has 2 * 2.8 / 13700 incidents per year. Thats 0,0004 incidents per year.

That means a crew of "Average Joe & Jane" will use their AED once in ~2500 years.
Since only 5 of the 14 incidents came out without permanent damage, the odds are once in 7000 years one crew member will be saved by an AED and in good health afterwards.

That is of course under the assumption that this average crew has access to emergency doctors and clinics as fast & good as on the airport. Very very unlikely in my view


Or maybe this is just proof that I missed too many Math lessons


Anyone should make an informed decision to get a AED. But I don't think we should spread fear of imminent death just because someone decides that new antifouling is more important than an AED.
Again: Individual risk factors may change everything!


And yes, the Germans were crazy to introduce this regulation on merchant vessels. Just an indicator of too much lobbyism. Nothing special.

Were all or most of the 13,700 people living at the airport between the ages of 55-75? Basically, the average cruising age?

You might need to take a statistics class too.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

This is an advertisement

Looking for remote adventures who enjoy taking risks with their own and others lives. Who see no sense in taking precautions in having on hand life saving products including AED's.

Here at Six Foot Under Funeral Homes we want to welcome you as a customer. We applaud your dismissal of spending money on life saving equipment and devices and look forward to you becoming a user of our services sooner than later.

Today's Special ..... For every Cruisers Forum member who convinces others from taking first aid precautions we will give you a 10% discount off your special Six Foot Under funeral services. Please forward details of prospects to our head office at Davie Jones Locker, Cremation Drive. Idiotville. CA.

Wow. That is more than a little bit harsh there GW, effectively calling we who disagree with you idiots? And rather silly. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who has thought through medical emergencies at sea and prepared for them more than myself, and that includes equipment. I am one of the few people you will ever meet who carry, for example, a traction splint aboard my boat. Comparatively cheap and extremely effective way of saving the life of someone who has had a femoral fracture, which otherwise often results in death due to constriction of the femoral artery. Do you have one? Just one example but my medical kit is a CAT A kit with extras, including several oxygen bottles and full rescusc kit. Not many have that. More than enough for any voyage, and you STILL have entirely failed to address the fact that, per crewman, the statistics are clear: the rate of effective use of an AED in the general populaton is once in 40,000 years, and that is WITH immediate advanced medical care subsequent, as statistically derived from cases where hospital access was swift.

And in the face of this you suggest that those of us who argue on this thread about the benefits of such a device for remote medicine are questionable given the high cost, are seeking certainly fatal trips provided by a supplier from "idiotville"?

Unimpressed.

[GoingWalkabout]

It was tongue in cheek. No offense intended.

By the way I did read that heart attack was the number one cause of death on commercial vessels. Sorry but I looked for it again but haven't dug it up yet.

I'm very impressed with your kit. Congratulations on the splint and oxygen as well. I'm seriously not well today. Dealing with an outrageously painful turn ligaments in my left shoulder and dealing with infection and awful pain following a root canal yesterday. And I was only hesting with you my friend. Now getting back to the point of the discussion. We can go back and forth about statistics and in so doing drive everyone including ourselves, crazy. I would prefer since I'm so low on energy to waive the white flag. I won't try to argue the pros or cons. I intend to have an AED and truly hope that you are correct in that it will never be used. It's kind of like insurance. Some don't care about the cost, they just want everything covered and others are more selective on what they want covered and how much they want to spend.

In the meantime again congrats on your onboard medical kit.

Safe and happy sailings.

Cheers,
Chaya

Ps. When I feel better I'm going to discuss this with the American Heart Association directly and report back here.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Were all or most of the 13,700 people living at the airport between the ages of 55-75? Basically, the average cruising age?

You might need to take a statistics class too.

OK. triple the riskfor age and its still a non-issue for most.

but once we get into this we have to adjust to many other factors as well. Availability of the AED on board vs at the airport. physical and mental fitness of the first responders. Additional qualification and equipment of first resppnders. quality of emergency medical care and Time to reach it.

And all these are much worse on a boat vs airport.

but whatever we come up with doesn't matter as walkabout knows better. I wonder how she wants to go cruising if statistically nonexisting risks like this scare her that much. There are enough real risks that need consideration.

I'm out of this.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

It was tongue in cheek. No offense intended.

By the way I did read that heart attack was the number one cause of death on commercial vessels. Sorry but I looked for it again but haven't dug it up yet.

I'm very impressed with your kit. Congratulations on the splint and oxygen as well. I'm seriously not well today. Dealing with an outrageously painful turn ligaments in my left shoulder and dealing with infection and awful pain following a root canal yesterday. And I was only hesting with you my friend. Now getting back to the point of the discussion. We can go back and forth about statistics and in so doing drive everyone including ourselves, crazy. I would prefer since I'm so low on energy to waive the white flag. I won't try to argue the pros or cons. I intend to have an AED and truly hope that you are correct in that it will never be used. It's kind of like insurance. Some don't care about the cost, they just want everything covered and others are more selective on what they want covered and how much they want to spend.

In the meantime again congrats on your onboard medical kit.

Safe and happy sailings.

Cheers,
Chaya

Ps. When I feel better I'm going to discuss this with the American Heart Association directly and report back here.

Fair enough, Chaya, all the best and I hope your ligament issue improves soon.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

Fair enough, Chaya, all the best and I hope your ligament issue improves soon.

Thanks.

Regards,
Chaya