MOB Experience/Frequency

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Ecos

I read something about his guy who swam thru the garbage patch. He said swimming in big seas was fun. If everybody onboard could think like that and carry some sort of beacon, it would help with the drama.

One word: Sharks!

[a64pilot]

You know that unfortunately there is no garbage patch.
I say unfortunately, because if it were all bunched up in one spot, it would be a whole lot easier to clean up.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You know that unfortunately there is no garbage patch.
I say unfortunately, because if it were all bunched up in one spot, it would be a whole lot easier to clean up.

Yes, there is, actually, the Pacific gyre. Last time we went through it, we collected a few glass floats, for historical value, but there was a lot of floating stuff from various sources. It is my understanding that there is some *stuff* from the Fukushima tsunami stuck there, as well, but haven't been through there for a number of years.

Ann

[StuM]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Yes, there is, actually, the Pacific gyre. Last time we went through it, we collected a few glass floats, for historical value, but there was a lot of floating stuff from various sources. It is my understanding that there is some *stuff* from the Fukushima tsunami stuck there, as well, but haven't been through there for a number of years.

Ann

You are both correct.


You are correct, there are several areas with high levels of pollution, but they are not what most people imagine (a floating "island" of garbage). Google images for "Pacific Garbage Patch" and you will see lots of horrific photos of such islands, none of which are of the areas in question - they re invariably coastal pollution. Here's a typical distorted presentation:
https://dmlnews.com/growing-garbage-...france-videos/


A64Pilot is correct. Its not all bunched up in one spot.
https://response.restoration.noaa.go...e-vs-myth.html




https://response.restoration.noaa.go...e-patches.html

Are garbage patches really islands of trash that you can actually walk on?
Nope! Although garbage patches have higher amounts of marine debris, they’re not “islands of trash” and you definitely can’t walk on them. The debris in the garbage patches is constantly mixing and moving due to winds and ocean currents. This means that the debris is not settled in a layer at the surface of the water, but can be found from the surface, throughout the water column, and all the way to the bottom of the ocean. Not only that, the debris within the garbage patches is primarily microplastics, tiny plastic pieces less than five millimeters in size. Many of these microplastics are the result of larger plastic debris that has broken into small pieces from exposure to the sun, salt, wind, and waves. Others, such as microbeads from products like facewashes or microfibers from synthetic clothing, are already small in size when they enter the water. With such small debris items making up the majority of the garbage patches and the constant movement of this debris, it’s possible to sail through a garbage patch without even realizing it.

[sailorboy1]

interesting how a MOB thread turns into trash

[barnakiel]

At a point I lost a crew riding on the trapeze.


Recovered in about 5 minutes. Warm lake water, uldb boat, summer.


b.

[model 10]

I think this post is an example of how futile it is to try and save anyone ovbd at sea. I 've come really close to drowning twice while white water kayaking. You struggle but then you can go. At sea it would almost be better if the boat continued on.

[barnakiel]

No. Not futile.



Out at sea it is mostly question of training, preparedness and skill.


Note most if not all racing crews in recent events located and retrieved their MOBs.


In at least one case this was from a boat going at close to 30 kts, at night, in bad seas.


Aim for this level of ability. Do not look at people who cannot and say it cannot be done.


Take your aspirations from the best, not worst.


barnakiel

[Dockhead]

@ Sailorboy1:


People die every year from falling overboard. How many MOB's have died just in the Clipper runs? It is one of the main risks of our sport. Are you going to conclude it's a non-issue just because you haven't personally seen someone drown?


@ Ecos: Although a large percentage of offshore MOB's die, nevertheless a significant number are saved, and as Barnakiel said, preparation can make all the difference between life and death. I think there are three main risks, each of which is a separate issue:


1. Not being able to find the MOB.


2. Not being able to get the MOB back on board.


3. Someone falling over while still tethered, and getting drowned by being dragged face-first through the water.


All of these risks are obviously mitigated by not going over in the first place. So in the first place, proper awareness, proper procedure, clipping on, holding on, etc. etc. etc. That is PRIMARY.



But assuming that even the best procedures and highest care won't prevent every single case of someone going over:



Risk #1 is immensely mitigated, almost eliminated, by the proper use of an MOB beacon and with good training of the crew on how to get the boat stopped and maneuvered to the casualty.


Risk #2 is mitigated by lots of practice and training. A lot of sailors drill finding and maneuvering up to a fender or other proxy for a casualty, but hardly anyone drills hauling people out of the water. I think this is a mistake. I spent most of an entire day last year practicing hauling my crew out of the water.



Risk #3 is a tough one -- something few people think much about, but which kills as many people, probably as the other risks, maybe even combined. I keep a rescue knife in my life jacket to cut myself free, but I doubt that I would have the time or presence of mind to use it. I do have written out formal procedures for MOB on my boat, which all crew are required to learn. It's policy on our boat that if someone goes over while tethered, that the remaining crew is to INSTANTLY cut that person loose. But I'm not sure that this would actually save anyone, either. This risk needs more work.

[stevensuf]

Ais personal distress beacons make a lot of sense

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

@ Sailorboy1:


People die every year from falling overboard. How many MOB's have died just in the Clipper runs? It is one of the main risks of our sport. Are you going to conclude it's a non-issue just because you haven't personally seen someone drown?

Gee, all I did was ask a crowd sourced question. Do you want to toss in some other "read into it" thing to support some other assumption based attack.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Gee, all I did was ask a crowd sourced question. Do you want to toss in some other "read into it" thing to support some other assumption based attack.

It was not intended at all to be an attack.


Of course, ask away. I am just warning against any temptation to draw the wrong conclusions from whatever it is you may get as an answer

[sailorboy1]

I will say, and free safe in doing so, that the majority of MOB deaths in boating activities have alcohol involved. I personally feel that by far the most dangerous boating thing I regularly do is getting into/out of the dinghy, and once you factor in a few drinks out before hand............

So far on the thread there appears to be a much higher chance of falling off the dock than the boat.

I'm not suggesting make light of MOB concerns as I feel a MOB that wasn't kind of "casual" is fairly close to a death sentence. But they aren't anywhere as frequent as believed and thought of.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I will say, and free safe in doing so, that the majority of MOB deaths in boating activities have alcohol involved. I personally feel that by far the most dangerous boating thing I regularly do is getting into/out of the dinghy, and once you factor in a few drinks out before hand............

So far on the thread there appears to be a much higher chance of falling off the dock than the boat.

I'm not suggesting make light of MOB concerns as I feel a MOB that wasn't kind of "casual" is fairly close to a death sentence. But they aren't anywhere as frequent as believed and thought of.

Rather than extrapolating from the actual experience of a handful of random people, you might look at actual statistics.



For example:




See: https://uscgboating.org/library/acci...stics-2016.pdf



161 people died in U.S. waters in 2016 from falling overboard. Alcohol involved in relatively few of these cases (about 25% of cases in daylight; 50% at night).


Falling overboard is by far the greatest risk of life offshore. In a sport which is not all that safe -- said to be more dangerous than alpine skiing or football.


In UK waters, among COMMERCIAL MARINERS -- maybe closer to what we do than general boating statistics -- three sailors died last year. One in a fall, and the other two overboard.


It's really a very serious risk which is worth thinking about a lot, and definitely not something to be complacent about.

[sailorboy1]

yeah, but I didn't really ask about deaths, that's been thread drift even I was part of it

BTW - I wouldn't consider 25% in day light and 50% at night as "Alcohol involved in relatively few"