MOB safe options

[JPA Cate]

I think Bobby Lex's experiment would be a very good teaching experience. If your boat has a sugar scoop stern, big enough to flop a person on, even a small , not very strong person has a chance to recover someone in flat water, if they can be found, and if the water isn't too cold. You might have to join lines together to use, say, the main halyard for the up pull, but that's why you practice tying bowlines with your eyes closed.

We used to do MOB drills to flotation cushions thrown out, loose fenders found floating and even hats that got blown off. (Lost my favorite hat that way. ) The sailing part isn't hard, especially if the victim is conscious, and the warm sea is flat. I'm with Boatie on this one, in a normal ocean swell, and with wind chop on top, the person in the water's head is all that sticks up to see, and can get lost in the clutter very quickly. We have a friend who added a radar reflector to his MOB pole, but never had to use it in a real emergency. It might help if you were close enough.

One might consider a string to a bell clapper that would ring when you pull it tight, then ring over and over if you fell in, breaking the string. The problems would be that you'd have to tend it, and it might not be loud enough to wake the sleeper, who should be sound asleep.

I agree that if you leave the boat, you're dead. I've known that since I realized I might not be able to swim even 5 miles to shore, so long before we went cruising far offshore. (You might succeed; and you might not.) For me, it is that I know I'm going to die sometime, and idea of death itself is less scary to me than that of long suffering. So I accepted that I had to stay on the boat. And to take that aspect seriously. That led to me realizing that if I were putting off a headsail change or other deck work because I didn't like the motion, then I'd better harness up and do it now, 'cause it wasn't going to get better soon. It's responsive and responsible.

Ann

[Brian Renwick]

Don’t fall overboard.

If you are singlehanded and fall overboard you have had it!

If you are being dragged by your tether, at anything faster than 3 knots, you have had it unless you are very strong. I am 67 and have noodle arms, so have no chance of climbing back aboard!

If there is a crew member, and even if you were observed to fall, there is a high likelihood that you will not be recovered alive if the water is cold.

I have a searunner 37 trimaran with a centre cockpit that is very sheltered and very safe. If I have to go on deck, I lean over the side of the cockpit and clip the tether of my harness to the jack line. The tether is sufficiently short that it is a stretch to reach out and touch the lifeline wires, let alone topple overboard and be dragged.

If sailing at night, I always have crew, otherwise I anchor or hook up to a mooring before dusk. If the watch keeper needs to attend to something on deck, for example rigging a boom preventer, the off duty crew is called and takes over the con. You may then attend to the job, following the procedure outlined above.
Obviously this encourages a conservative approach to sailing at night, and won’t suit racers.

The watchkeeper wears a harness and PLB at all times. I don’t usually encourage wearing a life jacket: falling overboard is non-negotiable and isn’t going to happen. If the conditions are highly hazardous, e.g. risk of capsize, then life jackets must be donned.

I stress to crew that MOB is the #1 risk, and to think of the deck edge as though it is at the top of a 1000m high cliff.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Happ

Dave the logic is sound for sure. My concern is when pointing the laser at the boat you are running the risk of it hitting someone in the eye. I’d be curious how the Australian Navy addresses that?

These are specifically made as flares and have exemptions for the operator to aim them at aircraft in emergency situations so I assume they are defused to some extent. The ones I observed in use at long range were very bright if aimed towards us (I'm not sure how directly they were aimed at us but I assume we were in the "cone" at those times) it was not enough to shield your eyes. When they were pointed skyward they were very obvious from long distance and this is with a city background from our perspective. There is absolutely zero chance that I would have noticed lights or torches or strobes or heard whistles etc at that range. I don't believe anything could be more effective.

I am sure at short distances they would cause problems.

If you want to by them, I'd strongly suggest you pay the extra for the green, or the blue was the best but they don't show the blue on their web site, it may be new or defence/police option only?

https://www.greatlandlaser.com/

[luckyone]

Once when sailing with a small crew on a big boat in the north pacific our skipper thought we should do an “experiment” germane to this subject. Dark night, not a light of any kind but our binnacle mounted compass from horizon to horizon. Overcast, no moon no stars. I attached a personal rescue strobe to a plastic jug for flotation and pitched it over the side. We were moving at a good clip, big, fast, boat. Probably 7-8 knots in moderate conditions, maybe blowing 15-20. This was a bright strobe as issued to aircrew back in the day. Impossible to ignore. Completely
lost to view in about 45 seconds. First we, the crew, got real quiet then we got real careful.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by luckyone

Once when sailing with a small crew on a big boat in the north pacific our skipper thought we should do an “experiment” germane to this subject. Dark night, not a light of any kind but our binnacle mounted compass from horizon to horizon. Overcast, no moon no stars. I attached a personal rescue strobe to a plastic jug for flotation and pitched it over the side. We were moving at a good clip, big, fast, boat. Probably 7-8 knots in moderate conditions, maybe blowing 15-20. This was a bright strobe as issued to aircrew back in the day. Impossible to ignore. Completely
lost to view in about 45 seconds. First we, the crew, got real quiet then we got real careful.

Thanks Luckyone.

In less than 300m the strobe was gone. The lasers when not even shone at us and when shone up in the sky were clearly visible for 40,000m with a city background. I would think in the conditions you describe, they might be visible for twice that.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by luckyone

Once when sailing with a small crew on a big boat in the north pacific our skipper thought we should do an “experiment” germane to this subject. Dark night, not a light of any kind but our binnacle mounted compass from horizon to horizon. Overcast, no moon no stars. I attached a personal rescue strobe to a plastic jug for flotation and pitched it over the side. We were moving at a good clip, big, fast, boat. Probably 7-8 knots in moderate conditions, maybe blowing 15-20. This was a bright strobe as issued to aircrew back in the day. Impossible to ignore. Completely
lost to view in about 45 seconds. First we, the crew, got real quiet then we got real careful.

Strobe lights and similar are to spot the MOB when they’re close by; in big seas/swells that means generally when both boat and MOB are on top of a wave.

I recounted this story of recovering a MOB in mid ocean at night on another thread a while ago. There were four of us delivering a Farr 1104 cruiser/racer from Sydney AUS to Noumea. The boat had started the Sydney-Noumea race a month earlier but had some problems, so was now being delivered. No self steering, so we had two four hour watches of two people each. The boat was light and lively and we had trade wind conditions - 20 knots on the nose and 1m wind waves on top of a 4-5m swell. Water temperature would have been 24 degrees at the position of the MOB. This was in the early 90s and the boat had satellite positioning (rudimentary MFD showing COG, SOG, Lat/Lon on a graphical display). We didn’t wear PFDs but wear wearing harnesses with flashlight and knife attached.

We were about a third of the way there on our 2nd night when we were woken by one of the on watch crew yelling “Manu est dans la mer” and the boat crash tacking. Manu had been on the helm (tiller) and had been flipped out of the cockpit by a bigger wave knocking the boat around. His tether unclipped or wasn’t clipped to his harness as it was still in the cockpit. With the uncontrolled helm the boat tacked itself and was now pinned down at about 45* heel with jib windward sheeted and the main caught on the running backstay. It was a pitch black night with low clouds blocking any star light. The knockdown had knocked the wine glasses out of the sink and we had shards of glass throughout the cabin.

It took a while to get the boat under control with the sails down and motor started, by which time we had moved a couple of miles away from the MOB position. We didn’t have a position, but had a record of the COG track.

We got onto our reciprocal track and slowly motored back, blowing a whistle and yelling his name. We didn’t turn on any lights as we wanted to be able to see (boat had a tricolour at the top of the mast).

It took a long time, around 45 minutes from when we were woken up, and I remember thinking that he was gone when two of us spotted a light off of our windward bow. Yes, we did find him. We had a horseshoe buoy on a long line that we drove around him so he could catch on to it - then with engine off we lay ahull and dragged him in. The open stern has moving about 1m vertically with the waves so it took all three of us the time our pull to the movement and to drag him into the cockpit. He was responsive but totally spent and couldn’t do anything for himself.

We got him undressed (harness, shorts, spray top and t-shirt) and into a sleeping bag with one of the crew in the sleeping bag with him. The other two used the engine to turn us back on course, throttled back to idle forward to provide steerage way, tied off the centred tiller, secured the sails and lines, then crashed in our bunks. We continued sailing a few hours later.

Manu was OK the next day and credits his dive master and water rescue certifications for keeping himself afloat for so long without a PFD, and for continually shining his light.

I can still remember feeling that flood of relief when we first spotted that faint light.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by fxykty

There were four of us delivering a Farr 1104 cruiser/racer

I pulled up a few photos of those. I see the cockpit is all but completely open to the stern (save for lifelines) with the transom ending about 6" above the cockpit sole. It is easy to see how someone could be thrown out.

[Brian Renwick]

2 relevant links, one attesting to the difficulty in recovering a MOB, and the other describing a rescue device which invention was prompted by this tragedy.
Note that it was full daylight throughout, not specially rough for the location, the water temperature at this location is always cold due to upwelling and especially in September. The rescue helicopter arrived on the scene promptly.
For those interested, an internet search will reveal more details…

https://www.police.govt.nz/news/rele...ling-overboard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/...d-lives-at-sea

[fxykty]

There are two problems to be solved once someone goes into the water. Neither are issues if someone stays on board. So number one rule, and all systems and processes on a boat, should be geared towards staying on board.

My thoughts are geared toward couple-crewed cruising boats.

First problem is finding the MOB, which includes notification that they’ve gone over board. Technology such as personal AIS beacons certainly help to make this problem much easier. Boat handling and all the rest of that is still an issue. Lots of things to unpack and training and technology will help.

Second problem is recovering the MOB. If they’re mobile and can help themselves, this problem is relatively easy to solve - a ladder. But if the MOB cannot help themselves, recovery from water to boat is the most difficult part. Forget about calm conditions - think about force 6+ and the boat movement and everything else going on. Planning and training could help, but the logistics if the physically weaker person is the one left on board make this problem truly frightening.

Stay on board.