MOB Tactics.

[ebisucapt]

"Well never having to deal with man overboard in real life I am a bit confused about the gear onboard. I have a horse shoe buoy with a light that activates in the water. This is attacked to the boat by 150 feet of line I believe. So I am curious about this being tied to the boat. if your at 6 knts you are going to start to pull this float from the man over board in 15 seconds. Seems to me since the light is there to find the man overboard you don't want to pull this from him. The MOB most likely will have to swim to this anyways if you manged to get it close enough to him/her. I understand that it is tied to the boat so you can loop around the person and get the float to the MOB. I have a catamaran and I have done enough drills that I know no way if I am alone on the boat that I will get this float and light out and stop or turn the boat in this 15 second window.



So I guess I am asking if this should be tied on or not.

[Discovery 15797]

You are correct that a MOB will not likely grab onto the horseshoe buoy on 150' of line, but that's not its intended purpose. (which by the way, IMHO, is the reason why it is silly to drag 150' or so of line off the stern while sailing).

Assuming the MOB has a life jacket, or you have a throwable device, the purpose of the horseshoe buoy tethered to the boat is to maneuver the boat back towards the MOB and give him/her something to grab onto to begin recovery. (This is similar to the Lifesling design).

See

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfszopvJ2-Y

It is also possible to bring the boat around under sail, do a search on "MOB maneuver" to see examples.

[slug]

We lost a man overboard in the 1981 SORC

Launched off the foredeck

Mob ring and spar bouy deployed immediately

The man overboard was not. able to swim to the mob gear

The MOB gear was helpful in that it was our sole visual clue to the location of the mob

With a pro crew It took us 45 minutes to get the man on deck
On a pleasure yacht is you go over board you are dead

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by slug

We lost a man overboard in the 1981 SORC

Launched off the foredeck

Mob ring and spar bouy deployed immediately

The man overboard was not. able to swim to the mob gear

The MOB gear was helpful in that it was our sole visual clue to the location of the mob

With a pro crew It took us 45 minutes to get the man on deck
On a pleasure yacht is you go over board you are dead

Well. While it is important not to underestimate how easily you can die going overboard from any yacht, pleasure or racing, I think it's also important to be realistic about it. The last underlined phrase is objectively not true -- MOB's are recovered alive from pleasure yachts all the time.



Thinking through and practicing MOB recovery over and over and over again is key to improving the odds.



Having MOB AIS SARTS on everyone dramatically improves the odds right there -- this practically eliminates the problem of finding the victim.



My one tip for anyone like the OP who is wisely thinking about this is this -- think about and practice, by all means, finding, and maneuvering to the victim. This is critically important. But don't neglect practicing getting the victim back on board, preferably using live and clothed people in the water. Many victims don't survive this phase -- it's a hell ot a lot more difficult than you might think.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well. While it is important not to underestimate how easily you can die going overboard from any yacht, pleasure or racing, I think it's also important to be realistic about it. The last underlined phrase is objectively not true -- MOB's are recovered alive from pleasure yachts all the time.



Thinking through and practicing MOB recovery over and over and over again is key to improving the odds.



Having MOB AIS SARTS on everyone dramatically improves the odds right there -- this practically eliminates the problem of finding the victim.



My one tip for anyone like the OP who is wisely thinking about this is this -- think about and practice, by all means, finding, and maneuvering to the victim. This is critically important. But don't neglect practicing getting the victim back on board, preferably using live and clothed people in the water. Many victims don't survive this phase -- it's a hell ot a lot more difficult than you might think.

After 30 or so minutes in the sea our fit young foredeck man was in shock

So weak that when we got alongside he was not able to hold onto the rope we threw him

He was as active as a jellyfish

We had to send a harnessed to the boat crew overboard to grab hold of the man overboard , then hoist both of them on deck with a spi halyard

Challenging procedure for a cruiser

Don’t go overboard

[StuM]

Originally Posted by slug

After 30 or so minutes in the sea our fit young foredeck man was in shock

Guess it depends on where you sail.


Half an hour in the water waiting to be picked up around here is just a pleasant interlude

[slug]

Originally Posted by StuM

Guess it depends on where you sail.


Half an hour in the water waiting to be picked up around here is just a pleasant interlude

This was warm water .. Gulf Stream

Wind 25 plus knots 2 or 3 meter waves

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by slug

After 30 or so minutes in the sea our fit young foredeck man was in shock

So weak that when we got alongside he was not able to hold onto the rope we threw him

He was as active as a jellyfish

We had to send a harnessed to the boat crew overboard to grab hold of the man overboard , then hoist both of them on deck with a spi halyard

Challenging procedure for a cruiser

Don’t go overboard

That's exactly why I said it's important to practice hauling the victim on board. A number of overboard cruisers on short-handed yachts have died despite being located and manuevered up to, because the remaining crew couldn't manage this part of the process.


It is a "challenging procedure" but not impossible for a well prepared and practiced cruising boat crew.

[slug]

If a man must go over the side to get the MOB be sure to have the correct life jacket
The standard inflatable or pdf won’t work

A conventional , non inflatable safety harness combo ... is also needed
A Pennant of the correct length to add to the spi halyard is also needed

[tkeithlu]

It's great to read about real experiences here. MOB scares me, and all our planning is based on trying to visualize the situation.

We intend our throw-overboards to be locating devises first and extra floatation for the victim second. So, they are upright poles with radar reflectors and fluorescent flags, plus floating cushions. MOB features on nav software do not take into account drift. Our jackets include inflatable sausages, lights, and waterproof VHF handhelds. That's the locate part.

My wife is small and I am old and would be hypothermic, so one hoisting boom on the boat deck has a standard lifering attached to an electric hoist by steel cable. That's the lift part. Maybe in warm water someone could climb the stern ladder, but we're not counting on it.

Then prevention. We have the luxury of an enclosed pilot house. The steel doors bolt shut. No one goes on deck without being dressed out and in view of the helmsperson, and in rough weather, no one goes on deck for anything.

Can you envision the devastation of not being able to get aboard your life-time partner? Scares me badly.

Thanks for the real experiences.

[slug]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

It's great to read about real experiences here. MOB scares me, and all our planning is based on trying to visualize the situation.

We intend our throw-overboards to be locating devises first and extra floatation for the victim second. So, they are upright poles with radar reflectors and fluorescent flags, plus floating cushions. MOB features on nav software do not take into account drift. Our jackets include inflatable sausages, lights, and waterproof VHF handhelds. That's the locate part.

My wife is small and I am old and would be hypothermic, so one hoisting boom on the boat deck has a standard lifering attached to an electric hoist by steel cable. That's the lift part. Maybe in warm water someone could climb the stern ladder, but we're not counting on it.

Then prevention. We have the luxury of an enclosed pilot house. The steel doors bolt shut. No one goes on deck without being dressed out and in view of the helmsperson, and in rough weather, no one goes on deck for anything.

Can you envision the devastation of not being able to get aboard your life-time partner? Scares me badly.

Thanks for the real experiences.

This sounds crazy but the most common MOB fatality happens when the yacht is at anchor

Your drinking your coffee, admiring the morning scenery, slip on a banana peel and tumble into the harbour

Then you are unable to get back on the yacht

Dead

Be sure that your boarding ladder arrangement can be used by a man in the water with no outside assistance

[tkeithlu]

Thank you, Slug, that's really interesting. I guess that's why my wife insists that whenever I work on the boat at the dock I wear my inflatable and leave my cell phone at the house. From there, I could crawl up the spartina.

Of course, last week I marginally got a concussion stepping into a 16' jon boat. Feet out, head against gunwale. On my back inside the boat. Getting knocked out on the way into the water is another scary scenario.

That has happened to divers. I know of one case in which a diver jumped off the boat negatively buoyant on his BC. Hit his head on the ladder. Fellow divers watched him descend through 200'.

[bensolomon]

It is also important to remember that body heat is liberated by submersion incredibly fast. Seventy to 80 degree water will render a victim hypothermic and loss of muscle use will occur in about an hour.

You wouldn't think 80 degree water as cold, necessarily, but it will cause hypothermia.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by slug

If a man must go over the side to get the MOB be sure to have the correct life jacket
The standard inflatable or pdf won’t work

A conventional , non inflatable safety harness combo ... is also needed
A Pennant of the correct length to add to the spi halyard is also needed

We were training for the Arctic Ocean, so our practice was to send the rescue swimmer out in a drysuit and scuba hood, no life jacket. A rescue swimmer needs to be able to -- swim.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by slug

This sounds crazy but the most common MOB fatality happens when the yacht is at anchor

Your drinking your coffee, admiring the morning scenery, slip on a banana peel and tumble into the harbour

Then you are unable to get back on the yacht

Dead

Be sure that your boarding ladder arrangement can be used by a man in the water with no outside assistance

I don't know if there is a statistic on this or whether it is just made up, but I CAN say that I've personally been overboard twice in about 40 years of sailing, and both times were at anchor.



One time was scary and a near brush with death.


I don't know if it's the "most common" way to go overboard, but it is sure something worth being really careful about.



And ditto on the boarding ladder. I have an emergency ladder on the rail with a kind of rip cord I can reach from the water.


A sugar scoop transom is a big asset in such a case, something my boat doesn't have (folding transom platform).