Rethinking attitudes towards fire suppression

[team karst]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I like the idea of water misting systems and the devices to implement a DIY system are readily available these days from the folks who manufacture agricultural or horticultural spraying systems.

About as nasty a fire extinguishing problem as you would want to handle is oil and gas well fires. Red Adair used barrels full of dynamite to put them out but modern well fire fighters use streams of water.

When you get enough water going into the oil or gas stream blowing from the well it drops the temperature below the ignition temperature and the fire goes out. One of them told me that you have to get the water into the right spot in the column and you cannot really see where this is but you can hear it if you know what to listen for.

I like the idea of water fog systems, and for many vessels, it does make sense. On my boat, I've got a distribution issue, though. Sail cat with two, small, widely spaced "engine rooms", batteries in another spot, a/c units in two more spots. So, unsure how such a system would work. Certainly won't be a KISS system.

[davil]

Just installed this on my bilge
from https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...evention-tools

Walmart had the best price
Bilge fires are common, my bilge pump wiring shorted and caught fire under way, huge problem on heavy seas

[Tellie]

You have very few minutes. How long does it take to deploy your life raft. Subtract that time from the few moments you choose to fight a fire.

[team karst]

Some have the attitude that bilge pumps get unfused power. Lack of using overcurrent protection does remove some items that could cause a lack of pumping.
Not in my plans, however. Better to have a fuse blow than have a pump fry due to a ty wrap end getting caught in the impeller.

My only story with my own boat is a suddenly clogged exhaust mixer on a V 8 gas motor.
It eventually started a burn on a 4" rubber exhaust hose. A passenger saw smoke and fortunately, the hose didn't quite burn thru. Even more fortunate that the FRP muffler didn't burn below decks. The other mixer was fine, and thus, the motor was not overheating. All gauges read OK.
This was 30 minutes into a 4 hour ocean crossing.

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by davil

Just installed this on my bilge
from https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...evention-tools

Walmart had the best price
Bilge fires are common, my bilge pump wiring shorted and caught fire under way, huge problem on heavy seas
Attachment 245227

I'm going to mount 1 over the engine.

[Rjstutch]

Originally Posted by hodgmo

"BCF" stands for bromochlorodiflouromethane, aka Halon 1211 or Freon 12B1. The other major Halon is 1301 (bromotrifluoromethane). The Halons have large ozone depletion (and global warming) potentials so their production is banned by the Montreal Protocol (and Kigali Amendment). 1211 was the fire suppression agent of choice for local application, eg, machinery (unoccupied) spaces. 1301 was a favorite for total flooding and protection of normally occupied areas. Both were available in portable extinguishers. They are still used but only in few very special applications (military and aerospace).

If I can pickup from here, my experience with large computer rooms or data centres previously used CO2 but as a gas flooding system was hazardous to staff. We then moved to Halon gas flooding systems eventually Halon 1301, and while they are safer for staff, unfortunately these were a major contributor to greenhouse gases and are now banned completely. The latest gas flooding systems use Heptafluoropropane commonly known as FM200® or FE227 and this one is safe for humans and does not contribute to greenhouse gases. Most of the later systems including FM200 needed an air-tight space and when released reduced the oxygen levels to a point where fire can not exist. Therefore I believe FM200 cylinders with a smoke and heat sensors set the the right levels, would be great for cruising vessels but my only concern is how do you refill them? The gas is also not cheap and may not be widely available, so if your system is triggered and dumps its gas you are left unprotected until you get a refill. It is available for commercial vessels, data centres, museums, and other specialised enclosed space fire prevention applications which can arrange for refills in days and sometimes hours. The great thing about this gas is there is no residue, no clean up required.

[Rjstutch]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

I'm thinking that the BlazeCut Automatic Fire System is a cheap solution for the engine compartment.

https://avrparts.com/products/blaze-...ression-system

Any comments from the experts?

This is the FM200 gas I mentioned in my other post in use for commercial applications and would be perfect for air tight or sealed areas like engine rooms, battery storage areas etc. but needs a good quality triggering system from well adjusted heat and smoke detectors.

[karkauai]

Very timely post after the thread about the catamaran fires.

Thanks for this reminder, Jammer. I have 4 10lb extinguishers, and a halon-type engine room system with FireBoy system to shut down engines and blowers.
I have not plumbed my anchor wash pump for firefighting, but you've tweaked me to put it high ony list. And a second fire blanket...

Thanks again,
Kent

[karkauai]

Very timely post after the thread about the catamaran fires.

Thanks for this reminder, Jammer. I have 4 10lb extinguishers, and a halon-type engine room system with FireBoy system to shut down engines and blowers.
I have not plumbed my anchor wash pump for firefighting, but you've tweaked me to put it high ony list. And a second fire blanket...

Thanks again,
Kent

[davil]

Originally Posted by team karst

Some have the attitude that bilge pumps get unfused power. Lack of using overcurrent protection does remove some items that could cause a lack of pumping.
Not in my plans, however. Better to have a fuse blow than have a pump fry due to a ty wrap end getting caught in the impeller.

My only story with my own boat is a suddenly clogged exhaust mixer on a V 8 gas motor.
It eventually started a burn on a 4" rubber exhaust hose. A passenger saw smoke and fortunately, the hose didn't quite burn thru. Even more fortunate that the FRP muffler didn't burn below decks. The other mixer was fine, and thus, the motor was not overheating. All gauges read OK.
This was 30 minutes into a 4 hour ocean crossing.

===========================================
the bilge pump was fused, however for some reason did not blow, since then try to keep all connections as high on the bilge as possible (as possible,a catastrophic flood may eventually reach higher levels on the floor)
Since the fuse did not blow on the sub panel that service specifically all my bilge pumps bypassing the main switches and directly from the battery, have added a second in line fuse to each bilge pump.

[nonav]

CO2 is highly effective at extinguishing fires in enclosed spaces, that you won’t be in, and far less costly than Halon, which is not being produced any more.

If you have the space in your engine room, consult a professional on capacity and install.

[skipperpete]

Co2 is by far the most common system available on commercial vessels but on a cruising yacht it makes little sense unless you have a sealed engine room with fuel cutoff and closeable ventilation. The weight of the cylinder alone is a big negative and the danger of improper or accidental discharge is very significant. It would be very easy to kill those below deck. Further to this, the MV Conception disaster would not have been prevented by inert gas flooding,the passengers would not have survived the Co2 but it might have been possible to save lives with a water mist system.

[Bill_Giles]

Our boat has an extinguisher in each cabin, in the saloon and in the cockpit. They are intended primarily to assist in evacuation, then fire suppression. We have an automatic extinguisher in the engine compartment.

[team karst]

Originally Posted by davil

===========================================
....
Since the fuse did not blow on the sub panel that service specifically all my bilge pumps ...

If there is ONE fuse feeding all bilge pumps, that is rather an issue in itself. Certainly a lack of needed redundancy on critical systems. First, one fuse feeding multiple pumps must be sized larger than desired; Two, if it is in fact a switchable circuit breaker, and not a fuse, it could be left in the OFF position, killing power to multiple pumps.
I'm not a huge proponent of panel mounted main bilge pump overcurrent protection. In what condition would one want to turn OFF all bilge pumps??
I agree your current course of action, to use individual fuses of the correct size is the best way.

And btw, my current boat was factory wired to have a couple of panel mounted circuit breakers feeding a total of 4 pumps, which I do not like. I will do as you did, and provide likely in-line waterproof fuse holders for the individual pumps.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Bill_Giles

Our boat has an extinguisher in each cabin, in the saloon and in the cockpit. They are intended primarily to assist in evacuation, then fire suppression. We have an automatic extinguisher in the engine compartment.

Perfect comment on the reason for fire extinguishers on boats. I will remember that and use it.