Safety and Cruising

[cyan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The problem with the 'Dream Cruise' is its more fantasy than reality.. the fake beach created for a movie.. the vacation promos.. usually filmed on fenced in all in holiday hotels where the 'friendly natives' are vetted before they can get through the gate..
The list is long and varied and delusional.
The Caribe of the '60's and '70's is long gone forever and as dead as Bogart and Wayne..
Sheltered lives breed disappointments.. as they say in Readers Digest..
Lifes like That..

I have to disagree just a bit here. My dream destinations are uninhabited tropical islands, and I have my personal favorites from the thousands still available. (though maybe not in the Caribe) The lack of a market or a beach bar might seem unacceptably uncivilized to some, but that is exactly what we seek. Not a whole lot of crime, though we did once have our lunch stolen by a huge monitor lizard. Different strokes...

[conachair]

What about disease? Heard dengue fever is really nasty, is that a greater or lessor risk than crime?
At a guess very few, if any, actually sit down and try to do some kind of risk analysis on the sparse data there is on dangers whilst cruising. Maybe more likely knee jerk reaction to some idea of a place based on little reliable information.

[Jim Cate]

Yep, I believe that far more yotties are harmed by disease and injury on board than by storm, sinking or crime. We know quite a few who have been infected with Dengue and Malaria, one fatally (in the Solomons). From casual reading, it seems that mozzie borne diseases are on the rise in many places, and with some new players showing up as well. Some research into avoidance and prophylaxis might be in order!

Ann and I have relied upon our version of "street smarts" (cruiser version) and word of mouth to avoid areas with serious crime issues, and it has worked so far:31 years cruising, one stolen dinghy (in a low crime area at that... Battery Point, Hobart). IMO, avoiding trouble spots isn't too hard, and obsessing about such will spoil a cruise in short order.

Jim

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Attikos

I guess it's kind of like visiting Washington, DC. You know there's a risk, but you really want to see the place.

This points up that 1) Perspective is relative to your experience, and 2) The constant drumbeat of media in our lives colors that perspective.

I used to live and work in DC. I thought of it as a very safe city. Of course there were places you avoided, mostly at night, but in truth they are not places you probably wanted to go anyway.

I do think that the 24/7 media exaggerates how dangerous a given places is, and it spreads and then becomes "fact". Based on reports about St. Lucia from the last few years you'd think it was overrun by machete wielding crazies whereas the intentional murder rate there is about half what it is in the USVI, which is in turn less than Baltimore. I love Baltimore, never felt unsafe there. Then again you exercise your common sense when you're there.

During my time in Oriental NC fixing up my boat, I've been stunned by the fact that crime is virtually nonexistent here. People leave stuff unlocked everywhere and nothing gets pinched. In fact, there is one policeman in town and the only time I ever saw him was during the July 4th parade lol. It's remarkable to me.

I guess if you grew up in Oriental and visited to Baltimore you'd see a threat lurking around every corner. I don't know.

[Snowpetrel]

I remeber being very afraid when I went to the USA

I did survive but sadly many don't. It's a very dangerous place.

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

I remeber being very afraid when I went to the USA

I did survive but sadly many don't. It's a very dangerous place.

Attachment 170082

Good one.

I really don't get why we Americans spend so much more time than any other nationality (at least in my experience) fretting over the violence elsewhere. Back when we were living in Mexico, a certain media outlet was running story after story about all the terrible violence south of the border. A lot of our friends thought we were nuts to be down there on our boat-surely rich yachties were ripe targets for all kinds of horrible things.

We stopped trying to convince them to believe that what they were seeing in the media was absolutely not reflective of anyplace we visited. There was no way to convince anyone-the news has portrayed it as a lawless hellhole, and that was that.

It would be as if the crime stories from the S. side of Chicago were extrapolated into a blanket statement about the current state of things in the entire USA.

That said, I think that the original question is a valid one.

We just brought up St. Lucia, for example. Take a look at the CSSN hotspot map. There's quite a bit of crime in that particular region, some of it extremely violent, and against cruisers. It's an area we will avoid when we sail back to the EC. I don't think that's paranoia-just an informed look at recent incidents.

I care little about petty theft. Do the best you can, lift your dink, don't leave gear on deck, and keep a low profile ashore and you'll generally be fine. And, if someone does get my dink-well, it sucks, but it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

Toss in the odd rape and murder on cruising boats at anchor, and I'll probably give it a pass. Sadly, St. Lucia and southward has had a bit more of this kind of thing of late, and we'll likely make our landfall somewhere around Martinique when we cross this winter.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ann and I have relied upon our version of "street smarts" (cruiser version) and word of mouth to avoid areas with serious crime issues, and it has worked so far:31 years cruising, one stolen dinghy (in a low crime area at that... Battery Point, Hobart). IMO, avoiding trouble spots isn't too hard, and obsessing about such will spoil a cruise in short order.

Jim

Exactly Jim, I look at the body language on the streets, how relaxed the eyes are and how friendly the markets.

I'm a visitor, I don't judge or react to differences, dress down and stay away from late night bar scenes. (anywhere)

Disinformation about our cruising plans is a habitual thing to strangers, more from my security training rather than paranoia.

I think research on destinations prior to arrival, is your best defence.

[Jim Cate]

Exactly Jim, I look at the body language on the streets, how relaxed the eyes are and how friendly the markets.

Brings to mind being in Honiara in 1998, shortly before the troubles erupted there. There were groups of young men standing around, giving us the stink eye and emitting bad vibes on all frequencies. We cleared out (why we were there in the first place) and departed asap. Only a couple of weeks later they burned down most of the biz district and headless bodies began showing up in the market place.

We'd been in the Western Province up until then, and all was friendly and welcoming... only a couple of day sails away!

Jim

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by conachair

What about disease? Heard dengue fever is really nasty, is that a greater or lessor risk than crime?
At a guess very few, if any, actually sit down and try to do some kind of risk analysis on the sparse data there is on dangers whilst cruising. Maybe more likely knee jerk reaction to some idea of a place based on little reliable information.

Yes this can be an issue. I got dengue while at Tioman island Malaysia but I also had Ross river fever in Australia. People back home in Australia where I'm from can and do get tick bites. It's part of the street smarts thing again, you have to apply it to this area, your health..... I'm hoping I'm a little smarter now. There's that experience before wisdom thing again.

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

I remeber being very afraid when I went to the USA

I did survive but sadly many don't. It's a very dangerous place.

Attachment 170082

No, it is not a very dangerous place. In the US, it's generally high crime areas in the Democrat controlled big cities with strict gun control laws that have the largest numbers of firearm related homicides. Chicago, for example has an average of 50 firearm related murders each month and most are confined to a small geographic area where even the police only venture in overwhelming force.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

No, it is not a very dangerous place. In the US, it's generally high crime areas in the Democrat controlled big cities with strict gun control laws that have the largest numbers of firearm related homicides. Chicago, for example has an average of 50 firearm related murders each month and most are confined to a small geographic area where even the police only venture in overwhelming force.

Pretty selective use of stats to matchup to some preconceived conclusion. The murder rate by guns per 100,000 for a few selected states:
Georgia 4.5
Illinois 3.4
California 3.3
South Carolina 6.4
Delaware 5.5

[TJ D]

And so it begins... guns and politics again. Any chance we can head this one off before it gets started?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by TJ D

And so it begins... guns and politics again. Any chance we can head this one off before it gets started?

Agreed. From the email notices I’ve received I’ve seen this troll attempt to push this thread off the rails at least once before using virtually the same post. The mods obviously stepped in b/c by the time I got here, the offensive post was removed.

I strongly suggest everyone ignore him/her. Don’t take the bait.

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Pretty selective use of stats to matchup to some preconceived conclusion. The murder rate by guns per 100,000 for a few selected states:
Georgia 4.5
Illinois 3.4
California 3.3
South Carolina 6.4
Delaware 5.5

Selective? Are the FBI stats. selective? Certainly they are. Georgia's capitol votes Democrat.

[zeehag]

de politicization needed for this thread big time. got successfully derailed
i see the fear of unknown as a major cause of paranoia regarding new locations and cruising sites. cruisers are cliquish and separatist. they donot mingle with the locals but keep in tight circles of english only please. we are perceived by these locals as rich in money and bad in attitude.
oopsy.
is that why we cruise?
aint my reason.