Safety and Cruising

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by zeehag

de politicization needed for this thread big time. got successfully derailed
i see the fear of unknown as a major cause of paranoia regarding new locations and cruising sites. cruisers are cliquish and separatist. they donot mingle with the locals but keep in tight circles of english only please. we are perceived by these locals as rich in money and bad in attitude.
oopsy.
is that why we cruise?
aint my reason.

Zeehag, you're lumping together all cruisers and I don't think it applies to everyone. I cruise off the beaten track, hardly ever see any other cruising boats (they're pretty much all Brazilian cruising boats and the odd Argentine boat). I speak 4 languages (and hardly ever speak English with other cruisers). There are a lot of cruisers on this forum, of different nationalities, who cruise extensively (and not just Mexico). It's normal for someone starting out to have some concerns for safety, especially if they haven't travelled much before. Let's cut them some slack.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

Zeehag, you're lumping together all cruisers and I don't think it applies to everyone. I cruise off the beaten track, hardly ever see any other foreign cruising boats (they're pretty much all Brazilian cruising boats and the odd Argentine boat). I speak 4 languages (and hardly ever speak English with other cruisers). There are a lot of cruisers on this forum, of different nationalities, who cruise extensively (and not just Mexico). It's normal for someone starting out to have some concerns for safety, especially if they haven't travelled much before. Let's cut them some slack.

i speak of what i SEE, not what i PRESUME.
there is a difference.
and , yes allcruisers are different. duhh. all people are different. but i have noticed that when folks who speak english get out of sight of englishspeakville they clump up with each other to the omission of those unknown. i have even watched folks invent stories about others merely to avoid intermingling. it is most entertaining.
this fear of unknown seems the issue with perceptions of safety. or so i have WATCHED occur.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i speak of what i SEE, not what i PRESUME.
there is a difference.

No, you are "presuming" that all cruisers are like the ones you "see" in Mexico.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i speak of what i SEE, not what i PRESUME.
there is a difference.
and , yes allcruisers are different. duhh. all people are different. but i have noticed that when folks who speak english get out of sight of englishspeakville they clump up with each other to the omission of those unknown. i have even watched folks invent stories about others merely to avoid intermingling. it is most entertaining.
this fear of unknown seems the issue with perceptions of safety. or so i have WATCHED occur.

I travel around abit, I meet lots of different cruisers yet I see things a little different from you, maybe we choose to see things differently?

I'm surrounded by French at the moment at Mayotte, it's so cool how we all do our best to communicate. All going well I'll be in Madagascar in two days, I plan to talk to locals so does my buddy boat. Maybe we attract different types of people?

[zeehag]

to each his or her own.
is normal human behavior to seek out ones own type.
hence the existence of cliques. you describe that perfectly.
you also defined the term.
i avoid cliques. i find them restrictive and intolerant of new people, new ideas and newness.

[Pelagic]

The only cruisers I know who purposely congregate with other yachts are the relatively insecure ones... They need that psychological backup.

I would describe my cruising history as 80:20

80% oriented towards special destinations that offer remote diving locations, deserted anchorages, far away from any organized tourism and simple social interaction with any native villages in the area.

20% are destinations that provide provisions and a safe haven for inland excursions.

For 10 years my cruising has been severely limited due to a number of overseas consulting projects and an extended refit, now thankfully near completion.

The last thing we will wish, is to be surrounded by other cruisers, preferring a back to nature existence.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

The last thing we will wish, is to be surrounded by other cruisers, preferring a back to nature existence.

+1, with one exception...
After a long passage, it feels pretty good to swap sailing stories with other sailors at anchor. There is a certain camaraderie among seafaring souls who have "made it" there. This has nothing to do with English, as the feeling becomes more intense when many languages are shared. (and attempts to learn a few words in a new language)

I think locals anywhere can misunderstand cruisers who appear in their white shiny yachts. As a kid I was under the false impression that most sailboats were simply million dollar toys for rich people wearing white linen and Top-Siders (no offense to Sperry people). What I didn't realize was that the vast majority of the monohulls down at our local marina were worth about as much as a big family car. Perhaps the word "yacht" threw me off?

If a California kid had such miss-perceptions, imagine the "rich" assumptions of a local shore villager from a developing country. A bit of interaction (and a shoddy wardrobe) often dispels such myths. We almost always "go native" with food, drink, and song...soaking up culture and meeting locals, trading T-shirts and languages. This has not failed us yet. Your mileage may vary.

[Pelagic]

FYI
Top 25 countries with highest murder rate per capita.

I don't think the US even makes the list

https://list25.com/25-countries-with...n-the-world/5/

2015 world rankings
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...high_desc=true

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by cyan

+1, with one exception...
After a long passage, it feels pretty good to swap sailing stories with other sailors at anchor. There is a certain camaraderie among seafaring souls who have "made it" there. This has nothing to do with English, as the feeling becomes more intense when many languages are shared. (and attempts to learn a few words in a new language)

I think locals anywhere can misunderstand cruisers who appear in their white shiny yachts. As a kid I was under the false impression that most sailboats were simply million dollar toys for rich people wearing white linen and Top-Siders (no offense to Sperry people). What I didn't realize was that the vast majority of the monohulls down at our local marina were worth about as much as a big family car. Perhaps the word "yacht" threw me off?

If a California kid had such miss-perceptions, imagine the "rich" assumptions of a local shore villager from a developing country. A bit of interaction (and a shoddy wardrobe) often dispels such myths. We almost always "go native" with food, drink, and song...soaking up culture and meeting locals, trading T-shirts and languages. This has not failed us yet. Your mileage may vary.

Snobs and posuers call them yachts.. the rest of us call them boats..

[JPA Cate]

^^^^Too right, mate.

On another note, posts have been deleted from the foregoing 3 pages for either having political content or referencing it.

JPA Cate

[cyan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Snobs and posuers call them yachts.. the rest of us call them boats..

Yeah, the Y-word is frowned upon among the racing crews in my little world of modest under-40' sailboats. I probably wouldn't hurl such names, though. Calling out snobs seems like snobbery to me.

[Jim Cate]

Snobs and posuers call them yachts.. the rest of us call them boats..

Aw, come on, Boatie. There are big parts of the world where any pleasure craft with a sail is called a yacht... to distinguish them from stink boats, launches, run abouts, tinnies and so on. Yep, even a Laser or a Sunfish would be called a yacht. And I know that you have been resident in at least one such area in the past, and Wottie is my witness!

I reckon that it is only folks with their own pretentious leanings that would worry about such usage and accuse the speaker of snobism. I tend to call sailing pleasure boats yachts much of the time (despite my Yank upbringing) and use the term "yotties"to describe the sailors who sail them... especially cruising folks. Not a demeaning term at all... to me!

However, wearing a "captain's hat with gold braid on it will draw some scorn from me! We all have our little prejudices!

Jim

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Aw, come on, Boatie. There are big parts of the world where any pleasure craft with a sail is called a yacht... to distinguish them from stink boats, launches, run abouts, tinnies and so on. Yep, even a Laser or a Sunfish would be called a yacht. And I know that you have been resident in at least one such area in the past, and Wottie is my witness!

I reckon that it is only folks with their own pretentious leanings that would worry about such usage and accuse the speaker of snobism. I tend to call sailing pleasure boats yachts much of the time (despite my Yank upbringing) and use the term "yotties"to describe the sailors who sail them... especially cruising folks. Not a demeaning term at all... to me!

However, wearing a "captain's hat with gold braid on it will draw some scorn from me! We all have our little prejudices!

Jim

Why do you think 'yotties' love being pirates.. because in their fantasy their sail boat is a pirate vessel just like the ships the term originated from..
Arab sheiks, Russian oligarchs and con artists have yachts.. we have dinghies with lids..

[Pelagic]

Technically a "boat" is something you put on a ship.
On pleasure craft it is often called a tender or a dingy.

However, I'm with boatie on this one. I hate calling stargazer a yacht.....it is a sailboat

[boatman61]

Jim.. I guess my 'pretensions' come from being a 'lower decker' in the Navy and what could be described as a working seaman for much of the time I have been involved in the world of pleasure boating..
It just boils down to perspectives really.. most 'yotties' I knew when working on the UK South coast came down to their yachts in the marinas and motored to the nearest nice bay and dropped the hook for the w/end before motoring back Sunday avo to head back to their businesses in London and the Midlands..
Non 'yotties' came down and rowed out to their moorings and sailed their little hearts out all summer and come winter shiver, scrape, swear and paint or varnish their boats till spring and the return of the 'yottie'..
Yotties like to flock.. thats why theres so many Yacht Clubs.. and if they can tag a Royal in front.. eat your heart out Playboy Magazine...