Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

[foolishsailor]

So a boat at night that was off shore over one hundred miles approached you, didnt respond the vhf or visual hails, and then instead of paraleing you to leeward circled you...

...i have never in over 20 years of blue water cruising had the above experience, however those who have survived being boarded have described the above. I have however been approached much closer to land at night rounding punta magdalena columbia and on approach to trinidade from the west

Im not trying to be a dick, and i am defo not pro gun but please deacribe your experience and location so we can compare to the op's experience.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by DeborahLee

There is a round called Dragons Breath which turns the 12ga into a 100 yd flame thrower.

Exaggeration in a gun thread, who would have thought

A Dragon's Breath usually refers to a zirconium-based pyrotechnic shotgun round. When the round is fired, sparks and occasionally flames shoot out to about 15 m (48 feet), beyond 15 metres, the round's already limited effectiveness is drastically reduced
Dragon's Breath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Mexdon

He may have been thinking of the fate of Sir Peter Blake at the hands of some Brazilians and just did not want to take chances.

Check your facts.
If he didn't want to take the chance of getting killed he wouldn't have pulled a gun.
Peter Blake was killed because he pulled one.
The rest of the crew were unharmed.

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Check your facts.
If he didn't want to take the chance of getting killed he wouldn't have pulled a gun.
Peter Blake was killed because he pulled one.
The rest of the crew were unharmed.

I cant believe i am remotely in the position of progun as i am anti gun but i also anti rhetoric...

Factually true what you quote but you cant rewind history and say thimgs would have been better if they hadnt gone the way they did.

Would blake have survived the encounter had he not pulled the gun? Whos to say, defo not any of us as we werent there to feel the vibe at the moment.

Could it have gone better, yep of course, could it have gone worse, yep of course. None of us were there to make the decison. As an antigun cruiser i can say i wouldnt have been in the position blake was, but then again i or my family might not be alive to talk about it.

This all strikes a nerve with me as both i and my wife would be non violent yet i know that if i had a weapon onboard and my children were even remotely threatened i would shoot into the dark and worry about political correctness later and of my pacifist friends i dont know any who would be different.

It is easy to say retrospectively what one would have done in a given situation but so much harder to admit what one really would be capable of if in the situation personally.

There is a great saying that is especially powerful at a parade...

"of a million people only one can be a hero, otherwise who would cheer at their parade"...

...we all think we would act better or different but history shows otherwise,

[hellosailor]

"Peter Blake was killed because he pulled one."
No, old chap. If you pull a gun on a cop, he's going to shoot you, and many people commit "suicide by cop" that way, with no intent of using their gun.

However, Peter Blake probably was not committing suicide by cop. Peter Blake was probably killed because he violated one standard of gun ownership: Never pull a gun unless you're going to use it. And if you pullit--make damn sure you use it first. PB was probably killed because he just didn't use his gun quickly enough. Yes, because he "pulled one" and then failed to follow through with the next step.

Firearms advocates and users will all teach a newb the same thing: Don't pull it unless you're going to use it. If you have any doubts about using it, you probably should be touching it, or having it. Guns, like Trix, ain't for everyone.

[sailorboy1]

opc orn:

you guys aren't trying hard enough for a gun thread, stop holding back as I've been kind of bored lately

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"PB was probably killed because he just didn't use his gun quickly enough. Yes, because he "pulled one" and then failed to follow through with the next step.

Supposition and more rhetoric from the opposite camp. I have made my position clear but i am willing to straddle the fence until the fence post come out me arse.



I would love to have less bravado, less testosterone, less machismo, less nationalism for fecks sake and have a real conversation about how we feel about things that go bump in the night...

We have all sorts here but how many have been in blue water and felt they were in a life threatening situation and reacted the way they did?

Can we create a non judgemental non rheteric thread to discuss?

Maybe i am being quixotic, but curiosu anyway

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

... Peter Blake was probably killed because he violated one standard of gun ownership: Never pull a gun unless you're going to use it. And if you pullit--make damn sure you use it first. PB was probably killed because he just didn't use his gun quickly enough...

The way I read Peter's story, the gun (edit: Peter's gun) malfunctioned after the first shot. (source: wikipedia).

Disclaimer: we travel without guns.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Would blake have survived the encounter had he not pulled the gun? Whos to say, defo not any of us as we werent there to feel the vibe at the moment.

Going on the FACT that the remainder of the crew were unharmed I would say he would be.
They did have the opportunity to "Kill 'em all" but they did not.
To me that shows clear as day that murder was not their intention.

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife

The way I read Peter's story, the gun malfunctioned after the first shot. (source: wikipedia).

Correct

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by avb3

But he wasn't using a Rocna

Well, if he had been in a multhull this would have never happened.

[nonam]

The Blake situation is different to the one stated at the start of this thread.Way off shore in international waters.Dark no visibility.Being HARASSED by a fishing vessel.
No cause for concern ,they only want some water.Yeah right!

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by nonam

The Blake situation is different to the one stated at the start of this thread.Way off shore in international waters.Dark no visibility.Being HARASSED by a fishing vessel.
No cause for concern ,they only want some water.Yeah right!

Many have called pirate before when approached when it was just a fisherman coming in close hoping for "Luck" to wash from the wealthy yacht owner to the poor fisherman.

The gun happy minority would rather shoot them.

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Many have called pirate before when approached when it was just a fisherman coming in close hoping for "Luck" to wash from the wealthy yacht owner to the poor fisherman.

The gun happy minority would rather shoot them.

Not to pick on you but this is unfar and a misrepresentative of the ops post. There is a huge chasm between "being approached" and the experience the op described. As i said before i have been approached, in dodgy waters o might add, and intentions are pretty clear from far off.

Especially a poor fisherman who wpuld be eapecially concerned about how his approach was perceived as he is looking for generiosity...

...someone who approaches who is obviously unconcerned with perception or who is obviously hostile is what the op described and how to deal with that is what the thread is about

[AllezCat]

i vote for AK47

Jackie Brown AK47 scene.wmv - YouTube

Maybe a loud haler and spotlight would be good in those situations too. But, stay out of sight.
Give them some chances - stuff happens - and its not all bad.

But never brandish a weapon and expose your self on deck. Pull it and use it...so they say.
I usually win all my fights by 100 yards...

[nonam]

That is absolutely right foolishsailor.I see it repeatedly where posters take a stated situation and try to make it something different.I am a singlehander and I can state I feel vulnerable when I am being closely looked over by a boat load of fishermen way out on the ocean.In fact,one of my tactics is to remain out of sight so that ,psychologically,any potential attacker cannot judge exactly what they will be dealing with and they will have some fear of the unknown.Pretty much all the fishing boats I see way out there have better communications than me and they have no legitimate reason to alter course and closely approach me.
Now someone will twist it to say they are checking to see if I am OK.Baloney.