St Augustine Mooring Fails, City says they'll Pay.

[Boatguy30]

St Augustine claims to own the bottom within city limits. This apparently dates back to some Spanish treaty, but is apparently recognized by the state.

The irony of my further research on the original topic is that the Salt Run field is basically a fake mooring field just to clean up that area of undesirable boats which it accomplished. Now it is clear the city used much better tackle on the city front moorings for the same size boat so it was really engineered to be fake as well.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Trying to find a place to anchor in Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, and popular places on the West Coast is a fools errand. There is simply more demand than supply of places to anchor in the crowded areas of Florida.

Lots of spots to anchor in Miami. We anchor off South Beach often. Ten years ago or so you used to get a visit from the water police but not anymore now. Lots of spots in Biscayne Bay. Lake Sylvia is a good anchorage in Ft. Lauderdale and no hassles.

We do east coast Florida every fall and have found no problems with anchoring. As posted earlier we no longer stop in St. Augustine. We don't use the moorings in Titusville either.

I think if you're a transient there's lots of spots, from St. Mary's River to Cape Florida. It's when you drop a hook and stay all winter that it becomes a bit of a problem.

[zboss]

One of the reasons I like our mooring is the bottom growth, which is super crazy here. I clean the bottom and two days later I've got a half-inch of growth, two weeks later I've got 3 inches. I wouldn't want to have to clean off my anchor chain after letting it sit for 6 months. I guess you could argue that for the price of the mooring over 6 months you could go out and buy an anchor chain of the appropriate length along with a matching anchor.

I suppose since I also work from the boat and its my primary residence, we could deduct a percent of the rent from my federal taxes. I'm not sure if there are any guidelines there.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by zboss

One of the reasons I like our mooring is the bottom growth, which is super crazy here. I clean the bottom and two days later I've got a half-inch of growth, two weeks later I've got 3 inches. I wouldn't want to have to clean off my anchor chain after letting it sit for 6 months. I guess you could argue that for the price of the mooring over 6 months you could go out and buy an anchor chain of the appropriate length along with a matching anchor.

.

You sit for 6 months without ever going sailing?

[Boatguy30]

So here's roughly what happened:

The city marina made a good effort to inspect the remaining moorings and test some components, though no old lines were tested. Some bolts were replaced and the entire tackle of mooring #17 was replaced and has been sitting empty for over 6 weeks now.

The 44' ketch was hauled out and repairs were estimated by a local yard. The intial estimate was roughly $30,000 which is certainly more than was expected, but masts needed to be pulled to get into paint shops, etc, etc.

CITY OFFER TO PAY $8,000....

Then with yard A estimate in hand, city contacted yard B where the city employee handling the matter had a spouse working at. They furnished a much lower estimate and insisted the job would be just as good, but they would only pay for the job if the "city paid the yard direct" IE knock down the property taxes or approve some permits faster, etc.

So, eventually the city raised their offer to 14K after the boat owner had their insurer do an estimate and approve $21,000 as the existing Awlgrip was fairly old.

City kept dragging their feet and sending letters back and forth to the boat owners. Boat owner's opted to pay their deductible and receive a payment direct from their insurer. The insurer intends to seek full payment from the city and refund the deductible to the boat owner.

While all this was going on we had a Mayors election and one other seat on city council on the ballot. We all voted. 6 term current mayor is now forced into a run off in November as if current council member who happens to be a well connected local developer.

Will be interesting to see what changes might come in fee structure, waivers signed, etc from this incident. The city is lucky it wasn't a real yacht that came loose.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Vasco

You sit for 6 months without ever going sailing?

Sad but true. I work during the week and my wife works weekends.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

City kept dragging their feet and sending letters back and forth to the boat owners. Boat owner's opted to pay their deductible and receive a payment direct from their insurer. The insurer intends to seek full payment from the city and refund the deductible to the boat owner.

Would seem that you would go this route regardless of what the city offered. That is the reason you have insurance.

[jcapo]

All of the mooring balls are being pulled, cleaned, and the hardware is being replaced as needed. They expect to be finished by November 1 in time for the cruising herd heading south.

And this morning I see "Kiwi Spirit" at a dock on the east side of the bay here in St. Augustine.

Dr. Stanley Paris – Kiwi Spirit, a custom designed 63-foot yacht

[davefromoregon]

Viewing the problem in terms of prevention, should you tie up to mooring ball and drop the anchor as plan B? I know stuff can still happen like getting hit by someone else's boat and the scope on your anchor is likely to be much longer than the next guy over.

Still it seems like a reasonable belt and suspender approach.


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[hellosailor]

Until your belt fouls on your suspenders?

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

Viewing the problem in terms of prevention, should you tie up to mooring ball and drop the anchor as plan B? I know stuff can still happen like getting hit by someone else's boat and the scope on your anchor is likely to be much longer than the next guy over.

Still it seems like a reasonable belt and suspender approach.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

And what happens and who is responsible when your anchor is fouled on one of the mooring anchors or chain. Maybe not so wise a decision.

[zboss]

This whole thing is overblown. Its my experience that the STA moorings get much much more maintenance attention from management than 95% of the mooring fields out there. Yes, out of the hundred or two hundred moorings they have, one has failed in the last 5 years [or something like that]. The rate of failure is extremely low. Certainly much lower than I see in the Caribbean and at least here you have legal recourse.

[Boatguy30]

Funny update. I noticed 2 new large mooring balls in salt run. I dinghied over and saw 5/8" chain running thru the ball, now I was thinking "wow they really upgraded these"

But being a curious guy, I pulled up the bouy to have a look underneath. Would you believe that nice shiny new chain only runs thru the bouy and to rope underneath? And the real kicker, wish I had a picture, was 4 old swivels cable tied to the rope to help keep that big bouy weighted down and upright!

Bottom line, city still won't guarantee ANY of the moorings to ANY specific wind speed.