the basics for survival?

[Prairie Chicken]

I'd ask Charlie/Kamaloha what, if any, aspects of that 2009 post are no longer valid. He obviously knows of what he speaks (and it corresponds with my own meager aviation understandings)--so what has changed since then?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by colemj

For that matter, Steven Callahan did not stock up for a 3 month drift.

Mark

Just quoting you from earlier..........

Steven Callahan actually had enough for maybe 10 days to 2 weeks. The spear gun and the solar stills saved his life...............and the dorados etc.

Plus he knew where he was, he knew the direction of the current flow, he knew his speed, where the shipping lanes were etc. All this worked in his favor.

Plus he was a born engineer/tech which helped when he had to repair the raft (several times) and retool/reengineer the solar stills.

Tom

[mpatter894]

I spent over 20 years of my life at sea working as a deck officer from 3rd mate to captain large container ships as 3rd mate I was in charge of all the safety equipment from epirbs to life boats, liferafts. In todays day and age the most important thing you can do is daily reporting and if it just for a day or 2 let someone know what your float plan is. even if all the electronic equipment fails the authorities at least have a point to work from. Another big mistake that people on small vessels make is abandoning the vessels to soon. You want to make yourself the biggest possible target for passing vessels. there ere also 2 other important items that I would insure that I had with me one being a sea anchor in the event I did leave the vessels I would do my best to slow the drift from the area that I abandoned the vessel another item that I didn't see mentioned and is important to me, being a ships officer even a 40ft sailboat in rough seas is hard to see at 6 miles (a ship looks huge from 6 miles from a sailboat) but I have a SART on board in any event weather you leave the vessel or not a SART (search and rescue transponder )will show up on a ships radar like a turd in a punch bowl great piece of equipment to have

[colemj]

Originally Posted by wellin

Really? Then where is flight 370? And all aboard?

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You do understand the fallacy of this line of reasoning and why it has absolutely no parallels to this discussion or boating in general, don't you?

Other than it supports the points I have been trying to make.

Mark

[Andrew Troup]

Thanks for the reminder about the spear gun, Thomm. I'd forgotten that. Seems to me it would be a better option (especially in a liferaft, I think) than conventional fishing gear. As a tiny fringe benefit, it's also satisfyingly proactive rather than passive.
(Sense a theme / hobbyhorse ?!)

Other thoughts:

Laminated large-scale ocean charts
(Anyone with access to Dougal's excellent manual, mentioned by thomm, could laminate relevant scans of diagrams and charts)

In an inflatable or RIB: extra repair materials, and a few 'safe' knives

To the poster who thought solar stills would have helped Boatie (Delancey?):
I don't think so, because they only work well when drifting during the day (in calm conditions), and I think he was sailing during the day.

A hand desalinator would have been good, though...

[thomm225]

No problem Andrew.

Here's the link to the book Adrift, 76 Days Lost at Sea by Steven Callahan if anyone wants to take a look. They were pretty generous with the "look inside" thing on this book.

Adrift: Seventy-six Days Lost at Sea: Steven Callahan: 0046442257329: Amazon.com: Books

[Delancey]

I always figured on a three prong approach- hand desalinator, solar stills, and rain collection with the hope that one should work if any two fail.

I guess my remark wasn't so much about the efficacy of solar stills as it was about being prepared and having options so as to not be dependent on others where possible.

Based on Tellies earlier comments regarding handhelds in general I would be interested to hear what he thinks of having something like a Pur Survivor 06 stashed in your bag unopened and unused for emergency use.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

I make sure that I am overweight so I carry extra food with me at all times.

In a bygone era, it was (rather unkindly) once said that humans made better survival rations than other livestock, because humans got themselves in the boats voluntarily.

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

Isn't it the case that rescue services are not available everywhere in the world?

That seems to be a big part of the reason why the two sides of this argument are talking past each other.

- - - - -

But in fairness, those who see merit in 'self reliance' are generally not averse to a balanced portfolio including EPIRB, SART, flares and such

Whereas those on the opposite side of the discussion, who see self reliance as outmoded or delusional, appear (at least on this forum) to be wedded to the notion that they are torch bearers for the "one true belief", and try to portray their antagonists as sharing that degree of partisanship.

My personal preferences:

If I was out of range of land-based rescue, I would want some way (assuming Poseidon had no other plans for me) of getting myself to a shipping lane, if feasible, and carry the means to have a strong possibility of making contact with ships who would be there anyway, regardless of my plight.

Failing that, I would like to have a fighting chance of getting either all the way to (uninhabited or third world) land, or close enough to (first world) land for a rescue request to be reasonable and proportionate.

I haven't paid enough tax in my entire lifetime to consider that my own state, let alone a foreign state, should send a warship with 10,000 kW engines and crew of hundreds steaming thousands of kilometres to the back end of nowhere to get me out of a situation I contrived to get myself into while "pursuing my dream" (puke puke)

But I can easily afford the marginal cost and effort of making my abandon-ship vessel a bit closer to something the likes of Shackleton or Bligh would have considered fit for purpose. If it turns out I don't need that degree of endurance, it will nevertheless have greatly improved peace of mind in the interim.

And I plan to do everything in my power to make sure the mother vessel is fit for purpose as the key objective, to render this discussion academic.

[goboatingnow]

I was deadly serious in my earlier comments. The key today is not to plan to survive for long periods at sea, but to ensure that you have adequate electronic signalling devices. There is a worldwide GMDSS which exists at great cost to the public purse , to ensure your rescue. The best thing is to be able to activate that system.


There is simply no reason to plan to be in a life raft for weeks on end. It is not a feature of modern day rescues.

The rabbiting on about the nanny state , boil my blood, given the voluntary nature of the rescue services like the type I'm involved with. Get a life sir.

There is no heroism on surviving for 90 days or replicating Blyth. These just serve to indicate how silly this argument is. This is 2014, not 1714.

Dave




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[thomm225]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

There is no heroism on surviving for 90 days or replicating Blyth. These just serve to indicate how silly this argument is. This is 2014, not 1714.

Dave

I'm thinking most folks going offshore these days will have a couple EPIRB's and maybe a Sat phone or 2, but there still is nothing silly about gaining knowledge.

You probably know more than most what can happen in really bad weather or just from a freak accident when out on a boat miles from land.

I'm thinking knowing more than switching the EPIRB to the "ON" position is a good thing.

I wonder what a lightning strike would do to all that equipment.

Tom
Coastal Cruiser

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I'm thinking most folks going offshore these days will have a couple EPIRB's and maybe a Sat phone or 2, but there still is nothing silly about gaining knowledge.

You probably know more than most what can happen in really bad weather or just from a freak accident when out on a boat miles from land.

I'm thinking knowing more than switching the EPIRB to the "ON" position is a good thing.

Tom
Coastal Cruiser

Don't get me wrong , one should have a good liferaft, offshore, cause you need an alternative to the boat if and when you need it.

But solar stills, or using a sailing dinghy , well now we're in la la land. Equip the raft for a 4-6 days maximum stay. Ensure you have adequate electronic signalling , the rescue system will find you. ( it found bullimore!)

Expounding some sort of Wild West self reliance mantra is best left where the truth of the Wild West is , Hollywood

As for switching Epirbs on, I'd just be happy, if more people actually carried one in the first place , then I wouldn't be asking exhausted lifeboat crews to go out again trying to find some idiot in trouble.

As for the lightening strike. Well the carbon based life form wont come put of the direct strike encounter to well either , the GPS satellites could also fall on your head too!!!

Dave


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[Andrew Troup]

I could rebut Dave's points relatively effortlessly, but completely fruitlessly.

Firstly, I don't see any evidence he actually reads my posts.

He seems to operate by recourse to a set of pigeonholes which permit his "blood to boil" without ever putting him to the trouble of doing more with a post than skim it to decide which pigeonhole to flick it into.

I can't think of another plausible explanation for his pattern of responding (generally with flat dictats, which might as well be carved in stone) to arguments which have not been posed.

Secondly, anyone who finds his posts compelling will probably be immune to an alternative viewpoint.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

I could rebut Dave's points relatively effortlessly, but completely fruitlessly.

Firstly, I don't see any evidence he actually reads my posts.

He seems to operate by recourse to a set of pigeonholes which permit his "blood to boil" without ever putting him to the trouble of doing more with a post than skim it to decide which pigeonhole to flick it into.

I can't think of another plausible explanation for his pattern of responding (generally with flat dictats, which might as well be carved in stone) to arguments which have not been posed.

Secondly, anyone who finds his posts compelling will probably be immune to an alternative viewpoint.

I read all your posts with great care actually Andrew. I'm merely give my opinion based on my experience. I find this " noble hero " nonsense just that, nonsense. There is no heroism in ignoring the modern world.

GMDSS was created, and you yourself argued on my point a few posts ago, to remove the need to spend long periods at sea in life rafts.

While I have no problem with people learning all sorts of skills , I have great problems with those either arguing the " faulty Epirb " as a way of justifying having certain equipment or more to the point rabbiting on about the " nanny" state rescuing them

You'd think people would prefer to drown. !!

So people considering buying a sailing rescue dinghy , miss the whole point about modern rescue systems and procedures. Their money would be better spent donating to the RNLI.

Dave


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[Andrew Troup]

I guess you just don't even know you're doing it, then, Dave.

Because you're still doing it.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

I guess you just don't even know you're doing it, then, Dave.

Because you're still doing it.

Your beginning to exhibit that pomposity again Andrew, I may be dogmatic, but I express my opinions genuinely and not in any attempt to merely stir things

I say it as I see it , you have from time to time argued otherwise, I respect it when you argue.
Dave


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