To tether or not, that is the question

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Benz

^^I have been in the bay, north to south and side to side. It's a landlocked bay. There's no chance of huge breaking seas that would warrant a tether offshore.
Because something could theoretically happen doesn't mean ridiculous measures have to be taken against it. Reasonable caution and situational awareness are far better at preventing calamities.
Wearing a PFD at any time ever, unless there's water gurgling over your bunk mattress, is ridiculous.

I took a breaking wave over the side less than a month ago, and a dock mate and his wife also took one over the stern quarter two weeks ago. We were both pretty close to the bridge/ocean. The waves can be close and steep there not like ocean waves

Tankers have been beached during squalls here.

You must be a guy that only sails on pretty days.

A Navy Seal drowned last year near the bridge. These guys are all in tip top shape and they are divers/swimmers by trade

And nope, it's not landlocked: (ps. watch out for the Latimer Shoal if you get over near Kiptopeke and the Bridge. The water can get as low as 2'-3' there and the current crazy. I went over it last weekend and cleared it by a foot or two during mid tide. I draw 4')

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/12221.shtml

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Benz

^^I have been in the bay, north to south and side to side. It's a landlocked bay. There's no chance of huge breaking seas that would warrant a tether offshore.
Because something could theoretically happen doesn't mean ridiculous measures have to be taken against it. Reasonable caution and situational awareness are far better at preventing calamities.
Wearing a PFD at any time ever, unless there's water gurgling over your bunk mattress, is ridiculous.

And lastly it depends on your experience. The OP is asking

We had a guy at our dock a couple years ago that took some guests to the other side of the bay, West, then attempted to sail back at night when the wind forecast was for 35 knots winds out of the West

He ended up in the bridge with a broken mast and had to call the Coast Guard.

His excuse was that his motor wouldn't start!? (this with 35 knot winds from the west and he is trying to get SE!)

But if he'd tried to sail it he may have ended up in one of the jetties that line both sides of the creek. It's also doubtful he would have known of the range marker lights to guide on

https://marinas.com/view/inlet/q9irm..._United_States

[ramblinrod]

I wear my harness and tether whenever I feel remaining crew would have difficulty. Recovering me as a MOB. A PFD is a valuable device which may prolong your life if you go overboard. At the very least it may make I easier for your body to be recovered.
A tether prevents you from going overboard so that the PFD is never put to the the test.

Relying on others to find you (looking like one of a million crab pot floats. And save your bacon, Is not prudent seamanship for the solo sailor.

If I sailed solo, I would have a device to turn. The AP rudder hard over if I hit the water.

[LagunaRed]

Sailing single-handed I think you need to have something rigged for jacklines and then go buy a tether. Even if it's just some line tied from one end to the boat to the other, it would generally be better than nothing.

[waterman46]

Chesapeake Bay in summer, no problem, but you can buy a good harness and use it when you get to the mast for reefing, if that's your method.

I used tethers and jacklines for years, but found they caused too many problems. If you are single handing, you must run the tether right up the centerline from cockpit to pulpit since you won't be able to get back on board if you go over the lifelines to the water. Can't run a center jackline in my current boat since I have big dodger and cockpit enclosure, which I must step outside to get to the mast. I put good handholds full length along the enclosure. I do wear a harness and clip it on once I get to the mast, out in the ocean where waves are large.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I took a breaking wave over the side less than a month ago, and a dock mate and his wife also took one over the stern quarter two weeks ago. We were both pretty close to the bridge/ocean. The waves can be close and steep there not like ocean waves

Tankers have been beached during squalls here.

You must be a guy that only sails on pretty days.

A Navy Seal drowned last year near the bridge. These guys are all in tip top shape and they are divers/swimmers by trade

And nope, it's not landlocked: (ps. watch out for the Latimer Shoal if you get over near Kiptopeke and the Bridge. The water can get as low as 2'-3' there and the current crazy. I went over it last weekend and cleared it by a foot or two during mid tide. I draw 4')

Chart 12221

We can keep saying "yes it is!" and "no it isn't!" all day, at the end of which each of us will still have his opinion. The fact that incompetent sailors, incompetent ship handlers, and incompetent divers die in the bay doesn't make it gnarly--it means bad decisions can be made in any body of water. By the way, if a little water slopping on your and your friends' decks means to you that there were raging seas, then by all means stay inside the super-scary confines of the Chesapeake Bay. 'Cos the real ocean might kill you.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Benz

We can keep saying "yes it is!" and "no it isn't!" all day, at the end of which each of us will still have his opinion. The fact that incompetent sailors, incompetent ship handlers, and incompetent divers die in the bay doesn't make it gnarly--it means bad decisions can be made in any body of water. By the way, if a little water slopping on your and your friends' decks means to you that there were raging seas, then by all means stay inside the super-scary confines of the Chesapeake Bay. 'Cos the real ocean might kill you.

Haha.

We are in the bay because we have responsibilities and are working and don't have the time to sail too far offshore

If not, I'd ask you to buy a Bristol 27 and we could do a race from Annapolis to Bermuda starting in a few months which I would win because I would simply stay near you and out sail you

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Benz

We can keep saying "yes it is!" and "no it isn't!" all day, at the end of which each of us will still have his opinion. The fact that incompetent sailors, incompetent ship handlers, and incompetent divers die in the bay doesn't make it gnarly--it means bad decisions can be made in any body of water. By the way, if a little water slopping on your and your friends' decks means to you that there were raging seas, then by all means stay inside the super-scary confines of the Chesapeake Bay. 'Cos the real ocean might kill you.

Btw, the reaction of the guy's wife to the wave that came over the side was simply excitement.

She really got into it then and I'm like you are one lucky guy to have a wife like that.

This on their Catalina 27 which is for sale because they want a bigger boat

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'm going to half disagree with you on this. Only half.

Actually, we have no disagreement there at all.

You think the system and procedures should be designed to minimize the potential for someone actually going over the deck edge and I fully agree. (And I think we both agree this is a bit easier on a multi than a mono - but still potential on a mono).

I was trying to avoid offering a black and white prescription on whether/when someone should wear a harness/tether. I believe that should be different based on people's different experience levels and comfort levels and risk acceptance.

However, we can help educate people about how to make that decision better for themselves - both how to set up their systems better and when they might personally want to wear them.

I was trying to point out that there IS a distinct challenge with tethers when solo - which I sensed the OP did not appreciate/understand. Which is there is ofc no-one left on deck to pull you back on board. As I said, IF you have typical fitness and a typical mono-hull clip-in system, then you can go over the side tethered and you probably will not be able to get back onboard (by yourself) and you could well be dragged to your death (people have been) . . . . when in the (upper) bay in the same situation un-tethered, you would be bobbing around in warm water, with shore not all that far away, and (usually) quite a few boats around you (And yes, the Bay was my home port so I am not entirely unfamiliar with it lol).

Ofc (a) he could die either way, but (b) sailing is actually quite safe and he is likely to just have a lot of fun and potentially get a sunburn, and (c) hopefully he is now just a little more aware of a few aspects of best clip-point/tether set-up and risk scenarios. And I wish him the best of luck with his cruise.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by thomm225

which I would win because I would simply stay near you and out sail you

LOL, Thomm - do you know much about Benz?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

LOL, Thomm - do you know much about Benz?

It doesn't matter.

The race would be fun ………….I've completed maybe 400 buoy races and maybe 50 distance (19-100 miles) all on beach cats. It would definitely be fun to race against this guy who ever he is that thinks people sail in the bay because they are scared to sail offshore

And by the way, I lost (as in came in 2nd. 3rd, or 4th) most of those races but won a few. I always want to win boat for boat (since I started in one design) regardless of PHRF Rating which I did here. And BTW, the area I raced in had most all the top notch beach cat racers in the USA including several Olympians. They sailed Tornadoes back then though

http://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpb...topic.php?t=86

[Yoty]

STOP THE BOAT !!
Weathervane the Main. Jib to windward, rudder to leeward.
Attach one's longer line, swim aft, release the transom hard ladder, get aboard.
A train stops, a plane stops, the boat stops.Immediate stall; We know how.
A tether to the tiller from the safety harness ?
How will you stop the boat ?

Thanks all posters, an Everest of common sense born of Experience.
Experience keeps learning us.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Haha.

We are in the bay because we have responsibilities and are working and don't have the time to sail too far offshore

If not, I'd ask you to buy a Bristol 27 and we could do a race from Annapolis to Bermuda starting in a few months which I would win because I would simply stay near you and out sail you

Thomm,
You would absolutely win--I'm not a racer by any stretch. And I like your chutzpah.
But winning would not change the fact that the bay in question is a relatively sheltered body of water. Not would it change my opinion that a lot of what are becoming pretty standard "safety" conventions among sailors in general are not a replacement for good judgment and common sense--in fact, the last two are more valuable than any amount of gizmo'd PFD/tether/jackline setups. While I take what I consider to be reasonable safety precautions, and I understand that "reasonable" is a moving target given other people's comfort and skill level, nonetheless, I think the sailing world in general is moving toward the ridiculous extreme of trying to obviate all danger by means of devices rather than competence, and it's both sad and laughable.
But allow me to apologize if I seemed insulting--it's difficult to charitably disagree on a forum where you're not speaking face to face.
A good day to you...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Benz

Thomm,
You would absolutely win--I'm not a racer by any stretch. And I like your chutzpah.
But winning would not change the fact that the bay in question is a relatively sheltered body of water. Not would it change my opinion that a lot of what are becoming pretty standard "safety" conventions among sailors in general are not a replacement for good judgment and common sense--in fact, the last two are more valuable than any amount of gizmo'd PFD/tether/jackline setups. While I take what I consider to be reasonable safety precautions, and I understand that "reasonable" is a moving target given other people's comfort and skill level, nonetheless, I think the sailing world in general is moving toward the ridiculous extreme of trying to obviate all danger by means of devices rather than competence, and it's both sad and laughable.
But allow me to apologize if I seemed insulting--it's difficult to charitably disagree on a forum where you're not speaking face to face.
A good day to you...

No offense taken, and I pretty much agree with you.

As mentioned earlier, I almost ran out of gas (tide and wind were a problem first few hours) last weekend re-crossing the bay motor sailing coming back South but got a nice 12-14 knot breeze from East when I was still about 10 miles out.

To celebrate, I went forward sat on the cabin top and had a celebratory beer. I did have on my PFD though just because but wasn't attached

If the wind is heavy and I'm heeled way over on a crossing that will take a few hours, I'll hookup the tether, but I never did hookup on Sunday. I am trying to get into the habit of doing it though to get my head right for when I do start sailing offshore

In my head when on the boat on a good day, I equate it to fishing with friends in Summer back in the day (early 70's) on POS Boats up near Tangier and Watts Island mid bay. No radio, no compass, no phone, and sometimes no life preservers (PFD's), just fun and fish! Lots of fish.

Awesome looking website btw! I'll have to check that out in more detail. I saw the sextant in the picture. Funny thing is I just picked up a small book at the library called something like Celestial Navigation for Yachtsmen. I'm in the process of transitioning from racer guy to cruiser. I recently bought two handheld Suunto Compasses for taking bearings on fixed objects and ships. On the ships to see who is gaining etc before a cross when still far apart

[Sojourner]

I have no reason to solo or nasty weather sail on purpose, and the Amel center cockpit is pretty bombproof, deep and all controls lead there. So I rarely even use a PDF (not even night sailing in some nasty Med storms last winter let alone a tether...the cockpit was buttoned up so tight I was in a T-shirt, and could have rolled the boat and stayed dry). But if I were soloing, I would less likely tether than take other precautions, like heaving to to do anything out of the cockpit, and trailing a knotted stern line to a lightweight boarding ladder off the transom. Doesn't do much if I'm knocked out going in, but I can swim at a good few knots at least for a minute... Like a lot of y'all, our rule is 1) Don't go in, and 2) See #1.