What's Your Opinion? Firearms or Not?

[Pblais]

This thread has come a long way from,"Fire arms or not",aboard a sailing vessel.Now it seems we are hinging on sociological parameters of what is the norm and what is the expected needs within certain areas of society.

You have figured it out! The good news is it's really not everyone. We have over 5,000 members and only 316 posts in this thread. I'm sure most all forum members would agree with someone in this thread.

Go to any on line forum on any topic and find the "gun thread". They
all have them and this one is ours. I think it's great because I know where it is. This is exactly what an international gun debate turns into on line, on the Internet, no matter how the context is prearranged.

[hellosailor]

PV-
It sounds like what you say happened in Houston, was only a copy of what was happening in Florida with airline tourists. Except someone in Houston figured out that when folks head home from a shooting range, their weapons are usually unloaded and secured in a locked travel case conveniently providing a source of weapons--and unarmed victims who can't access them. In any event, that's not crime at the ranges themselves, where everyone is armed. It's crime where everyone is effectively disarmed, if TX transport rules or habits are like most of the rest of the US.

Mudnut-
"Less guns at sea,less people shot at sea." If you see that as Western causality...You could equally say that putting a philosopher under a tree causes apples to fall, and that gravity is irrelevant. What you guess might be safety from a lack of guns, might actually be safety because the folks who are filthy rich and can afford both time and money for recreational boating, aren't interested in taking goods or lives by force, so they aren't using guns. (And yes, I say filthy rich, because most of the world would class anyone with the free time and money to go boating as filthy rich--even if many of us wouldn't call ourselves that. If you can afford to take a day off and spend money on a hobby, you're rich.)

As Dave notes from Old Jersey...guns don't magically leap out of the cabinets and murder folks. Murderers simply find the best tools for their trade. Ban the guns, or price them out of reach, and they'll find machetes, as they did in Rwanda. (Chinese Machete, one dollar retail. Production cost, ten cents. Chinese AK-47, Production cost, $100 Retail price $200 before gun bans, $6-800 after. Bullets? Optional and extra.)

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Pblais

You have figured it out! The good news is it's really not everyone. We have over 5,000 members and only 316 posts in this thread.

Or that 4,684 are too busy polishing their Gun collections to post on the thread

[Pura Vida]

Well I'm not sure that 'diasarmed via locked travel cases' can be concluded, especially here in Texas. I always kept my pistol in the seat beside me coming back form the range and my friend had his in his hands while being robbed. Just more anecehdotal evidence to fuel wild speculation on either side.

The real point is that nobody lives at the range and I doubt that most sailors don't want to live at a gun range either. An attempted carjacking taught me that vigilance was far more usefull than a gun in the glove box. I let my ex take the handguns in the divorce. If someone wants to go through the hassle of carrying a gun I don't care. For me they are just too big a pain in the butt to make it practical to carry one on a boat, which is what it is all about.

best of luck
pv

[mudnut]

I would like to know what the difference is between this thread on guns and the one thats been locked out.Both seem to be going nowhere.Here it is,"Ya want or need to have a gun,GET ONE,if ya don't,DON'T.Bottom line.The first line of protection is vigilance.The need to protect is a product of society.This thread should be locked out also,in sympathy for the other thread.Mudnut.

[Alan Wheeler]

Mudnut, if you consider that this topic is kinda like a group of vehicles driving on ice, this one thread has thus far remained within the boundaries of the road. It has taken a little slipery wobble now and then, but remained reasonably on track. As soon as politics are introduced, the convoy starts taking a swervy path that will lead to a big crash with lots of carnage and parts thrown everywhere. So while this particular thread stay's straight and narrow, we will leave it. But as soon as it all comes unglued, we will close it.

[mudnut]

No way Wheels,#287 page 20 this thread,dana tenacity.Whats the difference between his statement on Americans and my statement on society being the blame for the need to arm ones self.Society isn't pollitical.Stateing that Americans in general,carry these weopons more frequently ,is more on the POLLITICAL side.To state that one's society would be the main reason for the need to carry guns,is,Parr for the course.But not pollitical.Now if ya want a super post,check out #144 page 10.BC Mike.Great post,a society that ran on that level and only has to think on the same level is deffinately #1 with me.Mudnut.

[mudnut]

Sorry,I need to get this out right!!! As cruisers,you canot exclude yourselves from the rest of society.If you could,then there would be no need for guns aboard cruising boats,full stop.The guns and bombs will enter your domain,some will take up arms,some wont.I Hate guns,and,I hate that for the dominant species on this planet,we have come to need them so much!!!!!!Pittifull.Mudnut.

[Lodesman]

If not for weapons, we would not be the "dominant species." Unarmed, what are your chances against a grizzly, great white, lion, tiger, etc.? Some of us may consider carrying guns so that we can explore the vast wilds in safety, not just to shoot our fellow man.

[cooper]

Sorry for the wobly ...but who says we are the dominant species ? Havnt heard any one else apart from us expressing that opinion, and the way things are going the only other "larger organism" to completely travel across the globe ...The Blowfly... is going to have to take over as we the worlds demolition experts prove by action just how Un dominate we are....... : )

[mudnut]

Originally Posted by cooper

Sorry for the wobly ...but who says we are the dominant species ? Havnt heard any one else apart from us expressing that opinion, and the way things are going the only other "larger organism" to completely travel across the globe ...The Blowfly... is going to have to take over as we the worlds demolition experts prove by action just how Un dominate we are....... : )

Flies are hard to dominate with a gun also.Mudnut.

[Lodesman]

Mudnut - that cracked me up; nearly spit beer all over my laptop

[Brent Swain]

Todays Vancouver Sun has a front page headline about a huge increase in Grizzly attacks in orthern BC, a direct result of gun control. In Spitzbergen It's illegal for cruisers to go ashore without a rifle , due to polar bears. Advocates of gun control are incredibly naive about the realities of life outside their urban existence, and about the realities ov life inside the bureaucracies home of the bureaucratic "Personal Empire builders"
Canada's gun registry initially promised for under a million dollars has cost over a billion, probably the biggest cost overun in history.
Spousal abuse victims are being turned away from shelters by staff who wel know that they will probably be beaten again and probably killed , due to lack of space and resources , while government spends many times what theyneed on gun registry, promising to help them by changing the choice of murder weapon . They should feel insulted .
Homeles freeze to death in Canadian cites while gun registry bureaucrats squander far more money than it would take to house them , on building their personal empires.
In the South Pacific , there is absolutely no need to have a gun onboard. In other parts of the world , it would be incredibly foolish not to have one.
A Samoan cop once asked me 'What do you do about pirates " I told him " Everybody knows where the pirates are . Southeast asia, Columbia, Red Sea, Phillipines The answer is simple. Don't go there."
Most pirate problems I've heard about involve someone having left the hatch open and finding someone down below in the middle of the night. If you use aluminium hatches and you ports are to small to crawl thru, it would take hours for anyone to get in uninvited . With a wheelhouse , and a speargun , their testicles would be in great jeopardy while they were trying. Without a wheel house you have to open the hatch to see who's there . A cable lock lets you open the hatch enough to let air in .but not open enough to let people in.
Brent

[maxingout]

I never carried weapons during my circumnavigation. I did carry pepper spray in the unlikely event that someone ever got on board when we were at anchor.

In an eleven year circumnavigation, we were boarded once at night in Grenada while at anchor, and because the doors to our salon were locked, the intruder did not get inside the boat.

When you are outside the USA, there is gun control in the majority of the greatest cruising destinations. If you skip places like Venezuela and a few high risk locations, cruising is much safer than living in the USA where there are over 12,000 gun related homicides each year. I never worried about weapons until I returned to the USA.

When we cruised the Malacca straits, we found out that attacks against yachts on the Malaysian side of the straits are extremely rare. When it came time to decide whether to sail up the Red Sea and "face the pirates", or go into the Southern Indian Ocean and around the Cape of Good Hope, I decided that the risks of sailing in the southern ocean were much higher than the risks of piracy.

The whole firearms debate seems a little off the mark. Most of the world is extremely safe. The world has thousands of awesome cruising destinations in which the thought of carrying firearms is preposterous. In an eleven year circumnavigation, I was never threatened by anyone or felt any fear, and that includes sailing up the Red Sea.

I don't believe anything that the media says about how dangerous things are outside the USA. I have lived outside the continental USA for twenty-eight years and most of those years were in the third world in my work as an eye surgeon. Common sense goes a long way to keep you out of trouble wherever you are on planet earth.

I didn't carry weapons on my first circumnavigation, and if I do another one, I won't carry weapons on it either. There's no need to because I don't cruise to locations where pirates and weapons are a problem.

But if you want to fan the flames of fear and hear recordings about a pirate attack, you can listen to a video clip on our web site. Here's the URL of the video clip:dvd

Click on Episode 3 to hear the recording.


Enjoy,

[Lodesman]

Dave,

Pepper spray is a prohibited weapon in some places too.

Kevin