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Old 02-01-2018, 01:49   #151
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
  • Quickly clip a long line to the jackline end of the tether. This can be clipped to the clip itself, the loop the clip is in, or attached with a prusik or similar. This is much easier to do than clipping the harness end, as most people try and thus can be done in moments by one person.
  • If he went through the rail, back thread the extension line.
  • Cut the jackline. This allows the poor swimmer to float out from under the bow wave. The line should be at least a boat length, so that he can float freely, but still remain in contact with the boat.
  • Pull him over to the boat and pull him out using a halyard or man over from what ever position is easiest on the specific boat. Generally this will be the leeward side aft of the beam, but be flexible.
^^^THIS

Never having faced a MOB in real life...however this list right here I'm committing to memory and am gonna test out when the weather gets warmer. By far it seems the best solution without ANY specialized gear, will work on conscious or unconscious MOB, in seconds, and requires little by way of fitness for the remaining crew onboard (seemingly often a single woman the way many cruisers operate two-up).

Stop the boat (or maybe not even if conditions are rough or inexperienced crew, depower as much as possible, still be better than dragging by the hull for 20 minutes anyway).... Clip halyard to tether clip on jackline; get halyard on winch; cut jackline; start winching or hit the button to wind it up.

What could possibly be faster or easier than that, with no help or additional gear?
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Old 02-01-2018, 02:36   #152
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

Actually, to further my above post: In really sketch weather, with limited crew, I wonder if it would be worthwhile at all to pre-clip a halyard or other line to the harness back to the cockpit. It would be a bit of trouble to keep it free of entanglements on the way up, clipping it on and off as you work your way up on your tether, but the end would not need to be fed out by anyone, and if you went over, could instantly be ready to wind on a winch, and the jackline cut from the safety of the cockpit without anyone going forward....
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:26   #153
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

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Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
^^^THIS

Never having faced a MOB in real life...however this list right here I'm committing to memory and am gonna test out when the weather gets warmer. By far it seems the best solution without ANY specialized gear, will work on conscious or unconscious MOB, in seconds, and requires little by way of fitness for the remaining crew onboard (seemingly often a single woman the way many cruisers operate two-up).

Stop the boat (or maybe not even if conditions are rough or inexperienced crew, depower as much as possible, still be better than dragging by the hull for 20 minutes anyway).... Clip halyard to tether clip on jackline; get halyard on winch; cut jackline; start winching or hit the button to wind it up.

What could possibly be faster or easier than that, with no help or additional gear?
While we may imagine a halyard pulls "UP", it actually rolls on a (usually internal) block at the top of the mast. The main or jib halyard can pull up quite well so long as the halyard remains on the centreline of the boat. If you pull the halyard out past the side of the boat, especially one that may have a wide beam, the halyard has a good chance of rolling off its masthead block and becoming jammed. I've done this on a nice day, by accident, just trying to lower the main without pointing head to wind (lazy).

Some boats may have a fairlead which prevents this, but most of the boats I have sailed do not.

A better solution, which is only a bit more work, is to use the main sheet to lift a person aboard. Detach the main sheet from the traveler (usually a simple shackle), and connect to the overboard person. Then haul away on the sheet. Its not quite that simple though. The sail will have to come down. The topping lift (or solid vang) must be high enough and secure enough to take the wight. And a preventer or spare line will be needed to keep the boom under control. All this can be achieved quickly, if you are prepared and maybe practiced. And depending on your main sheet setup, you may be able to take the line to a winch...assuring that you should be able to lift the weight of a full grown adult, even with WW gear, fully soaked.
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:24   #154
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

^^^ Yes, you lift and adult that way. Here, my daughter grinds me aboard, using a Lifesling. The point about halyards is valid for many boats unless there is a block on a crane. Additionally, with my cat (16-foot beam) the angle with a halyard is very bad.

You will need to drop the main (pretty fast if you have lazy jacks--just seconds)

Probably only a fair-to-moderate weather method, but good to have in the tool bag. Not all MOBs are bad weather, and this works with minimal crew and smaller crew.

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Old 02-01-2018, 11:53   #155
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

Couple of thoughts, if I may, that have come to me whilst reading through the thread.
(In no order of importance)
1) Most of the MOB recovery systems in the thread bring the casualty out of the water vertically. This is a life threatening position due to the sudden loss of hydrostatic pressure on the lower body resulting in a "shock" to the body from drastically reduced blood pressure. So even if you have managed to get back to your MOB and they are alive you could kill them getting them back on board.
Only the idea of rolling the MOB into a sail or similar then bringing them onboard horizontally will prevent this.
2) If sailing in "colder" water (by this I mean North Sea, North Atlantic, Southern Oceans etc) then some form of immersion suit or thermal protection garment would be a worthwhile investment. Ease of access for bodily functions, comfort for long periods of wear and a full range of movement would be ideal design characteristics. Doesn't need to be fully waterproof but should prevent the loss of any warm water layer trapped inside.
Even in "warmer" waters (such as the Med in summer) consideration should be taken regarding longer period exposure to the sea. Water is 7x more effective at cooling than air and even 25C water will cool human body temperature rapidly.
3) Reducing the chances of going over the side in the first place should be a priority. Methodology and equipment will necessarily vary depending on boat design and usage.

So far a good discussion on the subject

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Old 14-01-2018, 11:09   #156
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

interesting clip from the VOR,man overboard,no lifejacket,7 minutes for a full crew to rescue.certainly makes you think-

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/new...ag-VIDEO-.html
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Old 15-01-2018, 19:05   #157
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Looks likely that it was actually a tether connector failure due to side loading while they were getting a halyard on to get him back onboard. Might have all happened in seconds, we don't know.
https://www.facebook.com/sailorgirlH...type=2&theater
....
New important information about that cleat failure: it was not properly the cleat that did not perform like it was designed to perform but failed because badly used. Lateral force was the cause of failure and should not have happened, I mean the lateral force, not designed for it.

The information is relevant and important to prevent another case like this one: Use the jack line away from the side of the boat otherwise this can happen and lead to cleat failure:





The pictures are from yacht.de that made (as usual) a good article about the issue: Erkenntnis aus dem tödlichen Unfall beim Clipper Race
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Old 15-01-2018, 19:22   #158
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

The EN standard for stronger type K carabiners, rated for cross loading, like the Kong Tango, was written in 1998.

This is not a new problem.
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Old 15-01-2018, 20:14   #159
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

Surely this problem could be minimized by simply looping the tether around the jackline and back to the harness, so that both clips were on the harness and not on the jacklne. Only something right at the harness could snag a clip, and I am guessing that it would be a very rare occurrence to generate a significant side load.
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Old 15-01-2018, 21:46   #160
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

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Surely this problem could be minimized by simply looping the tether around the jackline and back to the harness, so that both clips were on the harness and not on the jacklne. Only something right at the harness could snag a clip, and I am guessing that it would be a very rare occurrence to generate a significant side load.
I'm anxious to read the discussion. There are several obvious factors, not always applicable and mostly solvable.
  • The length can be no longer than 1 meter. This will not be acceptable to many sailors, though it makes sense on small boats. A loop on the tether about 2' from the harness would make it 4 1/4' long.
  • If the tether is clipped back to the harness, the release-under-load function is disabled. This violates US Sailing rule. There are currently no commercial harnesses with a loop on the tether and hooking it into the snap shackle is not something they are designed for. Obviously fixable.
  • Somewhat more time consuming.
  • I worry about cutting if done indiscriminately. The jackline area and other anchor points would need to be carefully inspected for sharp areas. The tether will need to monitored for wear.
I think this is certainly good practice at times. I sometimes clip in with a 1 meter tether doubled, when I really want a short leash. It also allows clipping objects too large for the snap hook, such as the mast or a fat railing (Type K carabiners clip up to 1-inch rail).
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Old 08-03-2018, 19:22   #161
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

Quote:
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New important information about that cleat failure: it was not properly the cleat that did not perform like it was designed to perform but failed because badly used. Lateral force was the cause of failure and should not have happened, I mean the lateral force, not designed for it.

The information is relevant and important to prevent another case like this one: Use the jack line away from the side of the boat otherwise this can happen and lead to cleat failure:





The pictures are from yacht.de that made (as usual) a good article about the issue: Erkenntnis aus dem tödlichen Unfall beim Clipper Race
Perhaps not so fast. Those are not the actual race clips and they are bent in a different manner. It's just a guess. Also, at that time, the MAIB did not know this:

A gibb-style clip can open if the gate is pressed with about 30 pounds force...
https://youtu.be/CbyhyC7ua8g

And if the jackline runs near an obstruction it can happen like this...
https://youtu.be/C76OYOjYRr0
... Which is why climbers are trained to clip with the gate up, which nearly no sailors do.
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Old 17-03-2018, 10:06   #162
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

Just came across this in LinkedIn.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/safet...TwOJuZiw%3D%3D
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Old 17-03-2018, 10:17   #163
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

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Wonderful advice. I'm printing that out to go in my boat manuals.

* Keep one hand for the boat and one for yourself

* Stay in the cockpit! – Sounds simple but nowadays most cruising yachts will have most if not all of the controls in the cockpit, especially with single line reefing reducing the need to leave the cockpit to reef.

* Walk up and down on the high side (windward) and keep your centre of gravity low (crawl if you have to) so you fall into the yacht

* If you have to leave the cockpit, let someone know and keep watch on you until your back in the cockpit

* Wear a triple point harness, i.e one which has a short and long strop. Long for maneuvering and short for securing.

* Think about placement of jack-stays, you see them all the time running all the way from stern to bow on the outboard side of a deck. As you get closer to the bow the yacht narrows and you are most at risk of going over the side. Could you maybe have a line down the center of the yacht? (Doesn't need to be permanent) Or some well placed deck eyes for crew to clip on to. This is yacht specific and only you will know the best places.

* This one will cause race skippers and crews to wince but you can always depower, or bear away to flatten the yacht. Anyone who has ever had to change a head-sail going upwind whilst ploughing through waves and the skipper carrying on not giving a damn would appreciate a little help. Us race skippers need to remember our primary concern is always the safety of crew. Racing is secondary.


The last one is especially important. I heave to for any kind of deck work in rough weather. In my opinion it's madness to send someone forward while bashing upwind in any kind of weather. Heaving-to is like pressing the pause button on the boat motion, heel, and water on deck.
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Old 17-03-2018, 11:42   #164
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

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Good post.

The other factor, repeated in most cases, is that the crew had no idea what to do. Thus, either train the crew or sail like you are singlehanding.
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Old 17-06-2018, 08:14   #165
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Re: Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

I believe that if someone is in the water and attached to the boat by tether, the very first thing to do is heave to.
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