Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

[conachair]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I disagree.. its no big deal to put a pad eye each side of the hatchway with 2 lines running to a single pad eye at the mast.. then a single line running to the bow that one can transfer to from a secure position.
Clip on before you climb out of the cockpit.

Behind a paywall, but that's pretty much where Morgans Cloud got to looking long and hard at keeping people onboard.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/12...kline-systems/

[Bean Counter]

Without a pathology report not possible to state precisely why, we can guess as to why someone on a tether may drown presuming jack line or tether did not break:

1. Tether jack line position is long enough to allow immersion of the head when overboard.
2. Knocked unconscious from the fall
3. Cold water shock/hypothermia / hyperventilation response
5. Heart attack from the shock and struggle

[crankysailor]

Stupid question but I’ll bite:

If one is tethered to the side jacklines and one goes overboard.. Stretchy jackline, longish tether.. I’ll hit the water... but I am still attached to the boat and assuming one is not solo , crew stops the boat, if I am still conscious I know I can pull myself on the boat even with heavy clothes (done that) ... with crew help to cut the rail guards etc, seems like one would have a non zero chance to make it back on board.

My point is.. it seems to me that being still attached to the boat improves ones chances .. and the risks of falling in such a way that the tether would cause one to drown.. well it seems to me like a risk one could take. Where am I going wrong?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Stupid question but I’ll bite:

If one is tethered to the side jacklines and one goes overboard.. Stretchy jackline, longish tether.. I’ll hit the water... but I am still attached to the boat and assuming one is not solo , crew stops the boat, if I am still conscious I know I can pull myself on the boat even with heavy clothes (done that) ... with crew help to cut the rail guards etc, seems like one would have a non zero chance to make it back on board.

My point is.. it seems to me that being still attached to the boat improves ones chances .. and the risks of falling in such a way that the tether would cause one to drown.. well it seems to me like a risk one could take. Where am I going wrong?

If you can pull yourself back on board in full wet clothing, you are in a very tiny minority of sailors -- you must have very low freeboard AND Olympian fitness. For those of us with significant freeboard and normal non-Olympian levels of fitness, it is about as likely as being able to leap the Empire State Building in a single bound.

Being dragged by your tether at any speed, your mouth and nose are filled with water and you can't get your head above it. That much I think is clear. That's why I, like many sailors, carry a rescue knife in my life vest -- to cut the tether free in case I'm getting drowned that way. The only think I don't understand is why the crew couldn't get the boat stopped before you have to cut the tether.

[Kenomac]

It only took me less than three minutes working alone to get a man and dog overboard back on the boat when this happened seven years ago. They just climbed up the ladder attached to the sugar scoop stern of out Hunter 450 after being hauled in using a Lifesling rescue system. I suppose it would be much the same on our sugar scoop stern of our Oyster these days if it were to happen again.

Maybe yacht design is the problem rather than crew competency. Consider having a boat with a sugar scoop or fold-down stern as being a priority regarding safety. Then just stop the boat, cut the tether loose if necessary and retrieve via the stern.

Maybe even add high bouyancy drysuits to the mix of safety gear. The suit I purchased was from a fellow who used it one time during some Pacific offshore race up to Alaska... everyone onboard was required to have and wear one. ‘Seems like a reasonable requirement.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VWZIom6ThzQ

[boatman61]

If your beating into the wind heaving to and stopping quickly is relatively easy.. however.. these guys were apparently in the S Ocean running downwind with the usual (I presume) big seas rolling down behind them and maximum possible sail up.. no that's a beast of a different nature.. go round too fast without dropping sail could result in a broach, knockdown and possible loss of the mast.. along with possibly all the crew on deck injured or killed.
You have to pick the moment to turn the boat safely for all.. not just the MOB.
Regarding hauling someone out while underway at 20kts.. try jumping over the side with full winter weather gear">foul weather gear on in port.. then see how easy it is for two friends to haul you back in with the tether.. then imagine the drag induced by 20kts.
The lady who went over in the N Pacific was also running.. on a broad reach if memory serves.. it took them 1/2 an hour to turn the boat and head back...
Big boats.. Big seas.. Big speeds..
Another example is the brothers and a friend out on a blowy day doing 7kts.. one brother went over from the cockpit as he climbed in and the other brother desperately tried hauling him in, then was just trying to keep his head above water against the drag.. he drowned in the time it took to stop the boat.

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you can pull yourself back on board in full wet clothing, you are in a very tiny minority of sailors -- you must have very low freeboard AND Olympian fitness. For those of us with significant freeboard and normal non-Olympian levels of fitness, it is about as likely as being able to leap the Empire State Building in a single bound.

Being dragged by your tether at any speed, your mouth and nose are filled with water and you can't get your head above it. That much I think is clear. That's why I, like many sailors, carry a rescue knife in my life vest -- to cut the tether free in case I'm getting drowned that way. The only think I don't understand is why the crew couldn't get the boat stopped before you have to cut the tether.

Thanks Dockhead. Yes, I will admit to being a bit of a fitness nut and a Contessa has been rightly dubbed “a submarine with sails”. I also hear the argument of being dragged by the tether and thus drowning. That much is clear.. but still.. if crew reacts and heaves the boat to etc.. but yes.. a lot of ifs. I think the right answer is center jackline and rightly sized tethers. Going overboard is not an option period!

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The only think I don't understand is why the crew couldn't get the boat stopped before you have to cut the tether.

Not having been on a flat out clipper boat in the southern ocean I can't even guess.
Could be with their experience it's actually better to get a halyard on the casualty and get them back onboard, which is what they were doing.?

[Kenomac]

Here’s another product video for the Ocean Rodeo drysuit in action.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8lkM2JMJASE

[Caribbeachbum]

He became separated from the yacht, so not dragged along by the tether...

I tell my wife that if I go over, be calm, methodical, and slow. Seconds don't matter, minutes don't matter, even hours probably don't matter (assuming I have a PFD).

But cold water plays by different rules. Minutes matter.

I think anyone who plans to go into the Southern Ocean, or anywhere the water is cold, would be well served by watching the videos here: Cold Water Boot Camp

--

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Or, why don't we?

Does a yacht have a strong point to clip on before climbing out into the cockpit?

Are there sufficient strong points in the cockpit?

How do crew go from the cockpit forward past a sprayhood whilst remaining clipped on?

How long should the tether be? you might get away with 3ft with a side jackline, but a centre line jack will require a 6ft tether. That is a long way to fall from the windward to leeward side and warrant some serious re-enforcing to both jackline, the mountings and tether to support the average person.

Something to really consider during a custom build perhaps.

Pete

Pete.. this is something I never understand about people.. going forward on the windward side..
Did all those old black and white movies with James Cagney desperately clawing to high ground as bullets thudded into him create the myth/belief that the high ground is safer.. and if he'd got there he'd have lived..
Personally the only time I walk the windward side is in good conditions.. when it starts to turn bad I walk the leeward side.. the hull and coachroof breaks seas into spray.. green water will not take my legs from under me.
I'm leaning inboard with a hand holding the rail on the roof at waist height.. the advantages of the extra balance and safety seem so obvious to me that I find it hard to understand the logic that leads you to a place where one's balance point has one leaning over the scuppers or further.. and handholds are at knee level minimising ability to plant feet firmly and just shuffle your way forward..
But each to their own.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If your beating into the wind heaving to and stopping quickly is relatively easy.. however.. these guys were apparently in the S Ocean running downwind with the usual (I presume) big seas rolling down behind them and maximum possible sail up.. no that's a beast of a different nature.. go round too fast without dropping sail could result in a broach, knockdown and possible loss of the mast.. along with possibly all the crew on deck injured or killed.
You have to pick the moment to turn the boat safely for all.. not just the MOB.
Regarding hauling someone out while underway at 20kts.. try jumping over the side with full winter foul weather gear on in port.. then see how easy it is for two friends to haul you back in with the tether.. then imagine the drag induced by 20kts.
The lady who went over in the N Pacific was also running.. on a broad reach if memory serves.. it took them 1/2 an hour to turn the boat and head back...
Big boats.. Big seas.. Big speeds..
Another example is the brothers and a friend out on a blowy day doing 7kts.. one brother went over from the cockpit as he climbed in and the other brother desperately tried hauling him in, then was just trying to keep his head above water against the drag.. he drowned in the time it took to stop the boat.

That makes perfect sense, and now I clearly understand. Thank you, Phil!

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Thanks Dockhead. Yes, I will admit to being a bit of a fitness nut and a Contessa has been rightly dubbed “a submarine with sails”. I also hear the argument of being dragged by the tether and thus drowning. That much is clear.. but still.. if crew reacts and heaves the boat to etc.. but yes.. a lot of ifs. I think the right answer is center jackline and rightly sized tethers. Going overboard is not an option period!

The clipper yachts are moored in my marina when not dashing around the world. They really are big boats with a huge free board, as you would want for their planned role. I am not sure if someone reached over the side and you were in the water you could grab their hand.

As a diver I have occasionally been towed if we have missed the shot line for example. 100 yards at a couple of knots would be the absolute limit and that for someone young, very fit and confident in the water.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Snore

Very short answer—— Simple physics. If you run a jackline 1’ from the edge of the boat and use a 3’ or 6’ tether- if you fall there is a good chance you fall off the boat. If you rig the jackline down the centerline of the boat this cannot happen.

He was working right at the bow. Jackline routing was not a factor.

Second, since both sailors--very nearly all MOB victims--fall to leeward, a windward jackline is better.

No reason you can run both if it works better on your boat.

What did prove to help is a short tether. One man had a short tether and was recovered very quickly. The 6' tether on the other man put him out of reach.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Pete.. this is something I never understand about people.. going forward on the windward side..

A very valid point. The windward side only was always hammered home by the Joint Service Sailing Centre. I guess if you are going to fall with a side jack line and tether then you end up still on the deck from the windward side and the deck is angled to be flatter on the windward side.

Pete