Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

A very valid point. The windward side only was always hammered home by the Joint Service Sailing Centre. I guess if you are going to fall with a side jack line and tether then you end up still on the deck from the windward side and the deck is angled to be flatter on the windward side.

Pete

That was always my reasoning. But Phil is arguing for the leeward side.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That was always my reasoning. But Phil is arguing for the leeward side.

But.. you have to remember I work without a tether so I use the side I find the safest.. whereas you are grounded in working the side where it does not matter how secure it is as your tether will stop you arriving on the leeward side and going under the rail.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I disagree.. its no big deal to put a pad eye each side of the hatchway with 2 lines running to a single pad eye at the mast.. then a single line running to the bow that one can transfer to from a secure position.
Clip on before you climb out of the cockpit.

I agree with what your saying. If I expanded on what I was saying I would said something similar to you. I intend to do similar.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by conachair

Behind a paywall, but that's pretty much where Morgans Cloud got to looking long and hard at keeping people onboard.

https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/12...kline-systems/

Yep, read it the other day while searching for a better way.

[Snore]

Wow you guys talked this up!

Okay first you do not need ANY special rigging. When I do a delivery that takes me offshore I rig the jack line as follow. First from the bow cleat down the center to the mast. If the halyards come back to the cockpit I run the jack line between the halyards and the mast, using the halyards to constrain the jackline.

If not I take 4 feet of 1/2” line (in my kit) and tie the line into a loop around the mast and jackline. The jackline connects to a cabin top winch. This serves two purposes. First I am fairly comfortable that the winch can take the shock load and the winch allows me to tighten the jackline before heading out on it.

You have to be damn near suicidal to rig a dry jackline at the dock and then go out on it once it get wet- without re-tensioning it first. Even if you re-tensioned the jack line an hour ago, just makes sense to snug it again. And if it is on a winch it gets easy.

As to why folks don’t do this? Ask the associations. I just finished a job and had the same debate with the owner, who was aboard. “The experts” he spoke to said to rig it on the starboard side. I explanied when they come aboard to run his boat they can do that. But it was my a@@ going out there, so it would be rigged to my standards.

As for windward/leeward— I clip in, and if it is dicey, my feet are leeward of the center line.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But still -- there ought to be a way to survive going over, even with a short handed crew. Couldn't you just heave to and haul him up by his tether? Why couldn't that be done in under a minute if you have a full crew? I am still failing to visualize this. I know I don't make 20 knots, but even from full chat at 9 or 10, I can heave to and stop the boat in seconds. At most I might have to center the traveler and haul in the mainsheet, but how many seconds does that take? 30? I just fail to visualize why sailors keep getting dragged by their tethers and drowned -- I must not understand something.

Dockhead

read this from Yachting Monthly - why the crash stop doesn't work

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/yacht...82333975041831


Might have some answers to you questions

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Snore

Wow you guys talked this up!

Its too wet to take my Kawaka out for a ride..

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But still -- there ought to be a way to survive going over, even with a short handed crew. Couldn't you just heave to and haul him up by his tether? Why couldn't that be done in under a minute if you have a full crew? I am still failing to visualize this. I know I don't make 20 knots, but even from full chat at 9 or 10, I can heave to and stop the boat in seconds. At most I might have to center the traveler and haul in the mainsheet, but how many seconds does that take? 30? I just fail to visualize why sailors keep getting dragged by their tethers and drowned -- I must not understand something.

I know this answer is kinda out of order, and I’m assuming that you haven’t placed me on your ignore list yet, but the answer to your question lies in post #20 and #24. Please watch the videos and comment. We use these drysuits along with harnesses, tethers, inflating lifejackets, a sugar scoop stern and personal epirb devices. What more can be done?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8lkM2JMJASE

[ferrailleur]

maybe a stupid question?


Could have a quick winching of the victim out of the water saved his life?
No time to stop or turn the boat. Time saved with just fasting a knot between tether and a line and quick winching of that line to get the crewman out of the water along the freeboard.... Your thoughts.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ferrailleur

maybe a stupid question?


Could have a quick winching of the victim out of the water saved his life?
No time to stop or turn the boat. Time saved with just fasting a knot between tether and a line and quick winching of that line to get the crewman out of the water along the freeboard.... Your thoughts.

Impossible. Wearing wet gear, the person probably weighed over 300 pounds... try to drag three hundred pounds of dead weight onboard sometime even in calm water... not to mention the force generated by the person being dragged through the water. That’s why a bouyant drysuit is the answer; cut him loose and retreive if necessary.

[kas_1611]

One thing to consider in this is the "tie on" position of the tether on [most] life jackets. Virtually all have the tie on by your belly button. I know all mine do.

You go over the side tied on to your tether and which way are you going to be towed along? Yep face first and face down. No lifejacket design in the world will keep you face up and backwards against any kind of water flow.

Fasten the tether to you backside and you get dragged backwards through the water so your head protects your face from the water giving you more than a fighting chance to keep breathing and for your lifejacket to keep you afloat.

Add in cold shock in the Southern Ocean and survival time drops into the low single digit minutes. It's less than 10minutes in the North Sea in winter unless you have a survival suit on (yes, I work offshore). Even if they could have clipped a halyard on the casualty and manhauled them up by the time they were on deck hypothermia would probably have killed them or secondary drowning could later on.

I'm going to look at routing my survival lines centrally using soft shackles, add hard anchor points where suitable and trying to get my tie on point shifted to my arse end from my belly button.

[Kenomac]

Something to learn from the extreme cold weather kiteboarding industry.... Look Mom, no lifejacket!

On this forum, everyone worries about falling overboard into the water, maybe we should watch and learn from those who spend much of their time IN the water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CGfdNayaeo

[oleman]

Many years ago we had a crew member go overboard at sea, down a day out of Singapore.

We had a trained recovery crew, the sea state was not bad for a large ship, and we had been through many man overboard drills where we always recovered the dummy.

In real life, the crew member was not recovered.

In this post I vividly remember that day and all the failed recovery efforts the crew made.

[Goodall_M1]

Has anyone looked into the back tether system from www.teamomarine.com?

I have been following their developments with interest but have never seen their products in the flesh yet.

I hope to find out more and possibly chat with them at the London Boat Show in January.

https://www.facebook.com/TeamOMarine...7308288002311/

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Something to learn from the extreme cold weather kiteboarding industry.... Look Mom, no lifejacket!

On this forum, everyone worries about falling overboard into the water, maybe we should watch and learn from those who spend much of their time IN the water.

Yes. I have one of those. In fact, I spent 6 hours in 32F water last winter testing one against the USCG immersion suit standard for a Good Old Boat magazine article. It is more agile that foul weather gear, even on deck. You can swim and you float like a cork. At the end of the test period, my body temperature had gone UP.