yesterdays MOB experience

[jo_sail]

Originally Posted by Srpulpo

… we through our lifesling over and motored around the MOB which was not easy in the wind and waves. … using the lifesling line we got him to the side of boat where gate was. no swim ladder on boat so we winched him up with a halyard. …

The PFD had double lift rings which were not that easy to get a halyard through them in the water, the single lift ring would have been faster. …

Originally Posted by requiem

… use of an extended tether to avoid issues with the MOB having to clip their own harness. … use of a life sling.

After not loosing sight and returning to the MOB, fixing the MOB at the boat and securing a strong connection for lifting on board are two difficult but crucial step for successful rescue.

In my view the idea of the ‚MOB lifesaver‘ provides an effective tool to alleviate this trouble. I found that the handle providing the fix should be improved to float, to reflect light and to allow better grabbing it with a boot hook and pull by hand. The following solution is installed in my PFD and I build them as little gifts for friends who are sailing with me.

Personal rescue loop attached to the life belt or lift strap of a PFD:
https://www.skipperguide.de/mediawik...FDL13_2021.pdf

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

The lifesling goes under the arms, NOT around the back. You will hurt someone that way.

Not picturing what you're saying.
The lifesling goes around the back and under your armpits. See instructions:

https://www.westmarine.com/on/demand...2%20Manual.pdf

[Jamme]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

. . . Take you lifesling line and put a loop in it next to a nearby cleat. When you brought the MOB back to the boat, throw the loop over the cleat and the MOB is now secured to the boat. Connect a halyard or other lifting line to the Lifesling and hoist the MOB aboard. . .

Seems generally like a good idea. Question: would you use the same approach in choppy waters? The concern here would be that, with a loop on a cleat, one can’t slack the line to prevent the victim from bumping into the hull.

Thanks all. This is all very valuable information.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by jo_sail

Personal rescue loop attached to the life belt or lift strap of a PFD:
https://www.skipperguide.de/mediawik...FDL13_2021.pdf

Well that is fancy! I've commented on it before, but I've always wondered why US PFDs lack a dedicated lifting loop.

Originally Posted by Jamme

The concern here would be that, with a loop on a cleat, one can’t slack the line to prevent the victim from bumping into the hull.

I think you'll want decent slack in any case; if the line has too little slack they might not clear the deck / lifelines during the hoist and that'd be one more thing to deal with. As you hoist them they'll be bumping the hull anyway.

[jo_sail]

How good that in the MOB case reported here the crew was able to rescue the MOB on board with the available equipment despite difficult circumstances.

Nevertheless, the addition of some sufficiently robust personal equipment for fixing, lifting and on-boarding in each PFD shall be further motivated by two recent reports and in depth analysis of deadly MOB accident on a sailing yachts in Flensburger Förde an the German North Sea at Accumer Ee. The full reports are in German and list a multitude of fundamental errors and/or failures of equipment.

I here translate a key conclusion from the summary of the reports:

„… The skipper fell backwards over the railing into the water. The other sailors were unable to bring the victim back on board the yacht, although he was back at the stern of the yacht shortly afterwards. One of the crew members went into the water to help, lost contact with the yacht and was rescued by the other crew members with hypothermia.
[Later] a helicopter recovered the skipper, but all resuscitation attempts were unsuccessful.“
https://www.bsu-bund.de/SharedDocs/p...cht_138_22.pdf

„… While attempting to pull the sailor out of the water from aboard a marine rescue boat, the buoyancy device ripped off the vest and the sailor sank into the sea. He had not been found by the time this report was published. …“
https://www.bsu-bund.de/SharedDocs/p...cht_276_21.pdf

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by jo_sail

How good that in the MOB case reported here the crew was able to rescue the MOB on board with the available equipment despite difficult circumstances.

Nevertheless, the addition of some sufficiently robust personal equipment for fixing, lifting and on-boarding in each PFD shall be further motivated by two recent reports and in depth analysis of deadly MOB accident on a sailing yachts in Flensburger Förde an the German North Sea at Accumer Ee. The full reports are in German and list a multitude of fundamental errors and/or failures of equipment.

I here translate a key conclusion from the summary of the reports:

„… The skipper fell backwards over the railing into the water. The other sailors were unable to bring the victim back on board the yacht, although he was back at the stern of the yacht shortly afterwards. One of the crew members went into the water to help, lost contact with the yacht and was rescued by the other crew members with hypothermia.
[Later] a helicopter recovered the skipper, but all resuscitation attempts were unsuccessful.“
https://www.bsu-bund.de/SharedDocs/p...cht_138_22.pdf

„… While attempting to pull the sailor out of the water from aboard a marine rescue boat, the buoyancy device ripped off the vest and the sailor sank into the sea. He had not been found by the time this report was published. …“
https://www.bsu-bund.de/SharedDocs/p...cht_276_21.pdf

Bingo, these reports show that a MOB situation has two distinct phases:
1) search for the MOB
2) once you’ve located the MOB, get them back on board

#1 is relatively simple to execute, though gets a lot harder in bigger sea conditions and at night. Whistles, lights, flares, locator beacons all help - what’s on your PFD? Do you even wear it? Modern plotters should have search patterns built-in and OpenCPN has a plug in for SAR. The MOB button should be on every screen, or a separate button. If not, make it so!

#2 is very difficult to execute, especially for a couple crew where the larger person is the one in the water. There are so many different situations and in everything but the best case (fully conscious MOB in warm water with a strong person on the boat), specialist equipment and training is needed. How many of us have both of those?

As for sugar scoops, on monohulls particularly and also to a lesser extent catamarans, in any sort of seas they are death traps just waiting to crush a MOB’s head. That is why all professional training does the retrieval amidships at the point of least pitching. Unless you can at the top of a wave quickly grab the MOB and haul them into the cockpit in one movement, don’t use the sugar scoop!

[bensolomon]

Congratulations on a successful recovery. You did very well. I have an SOS Danbouy next to my life sling. It is a self inflating mob pole with a drogue and float:

https://www.landfallnavigation.com/s...rd-marker.html

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by fxykty

As for sugar scoops, on monohulls particularly and also to a lesser extent catamarans, in any sort of seas they are death traps just waiting to crush a MOB’s head. That is why all professional training does the retrieval amidships at the point of least pitching. Unless you can at the top of a wave quickly grab the MOB and haul them into the cockpit in one movement, don’t use the sugar scoop!

You will have to explain that. One can lounge with cocktails on our sugar scoop swimming platform with high waves and it never lifts up from the water.

[jo_sail]

Originally Posted by fxykty

#2) … get them back on board

is very difficult to execute, … , specialist equipment and training is needed. How many of us have both of those?

… professional training does the retrieval amidships at the point of least pitching.

I‘m happy to share further perspectives or my trial to be prepared for a MOB situation:

#2.1 install an extension of a strong fix point at the PFD for lifting, see the suggestion for a Personal Rescue Loop above

#2.2 install a fix point at the shroud, amidships, both sides, before you leave harbour

#2.3 have a tackle ready as the essential link for lifting the MOB.

#2.4 and test the entire setting practically!

On 2.2 and 2.3: I can share a second reference describing the construction of a relatively lightweight 6-part tackle here.
https://www.skipperguide.de/mediawik...FDL13_2022.pdf
Everyone is invited to DIY and further improve… I‘m interested to learn your ideas and experiences.

On 2.4 let me report: I have successfully tested it at anchor (so far fortunately not in a MOB situation) with a heavy person wearing a harness. I lifted the person above the yacht lifeline and on deck with my bare hands (no gloves), the tackle attached to the end of the spinnaker halyard, horizontally fixed to the shroud and me standing there amidships. This all will still be very difficult in heavy seas and with a lot of mental and physical stress.

But I feel I can significantly increased the chance of MOB rescue including on-boarding by combining small equipment and preparations by 2.1 to 2.4.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You will have to explain that. One can lounge with cocktails on our sugar scoop swimming platform with high waves and it never lifts up from the water.

You have a long skinny monohull so your boat’s motion may be different from that of shorter and relatively wider monohulls? The centre of bouyancy is usually just behind midships, hence both bow and stern both come out of the water as the boat pitches (bow up and stern down, then stern up and bow down, not both together!). It usually doesn’t take much of a sea to create a big slap of the stern when the bow lifts. If not your boat, lucky!

With cats, the centre of bouyancy is much further aft, so the sterns don’t move vertically as much. Even so, a stern dropping 1/2 a metre is a fearsome slap on the head.

[Jamme]

Originally Posted by fxykty

. . . Modern plotters should have search patterns built-in and OpenCPN has a plug in for SAR. The MOB button should be on every screen . . .

I think yours is an excellent idea and relatively easy to accomplish from a software standpoint. Perhaps they could also incorporate current (if and when available) to show both a fixed point (where victim fell) and a “moving target” (where victim may be drifting).

Thanks.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by fxykty

You have a long skinny monohull so your boat’s motion may be different from that of shorter and relatively wider monohulls? The centre of bouyancy is usually just behind midships, hence both bow and stern both come out of the water as the boat pitches (bow up and stern down, then stern up and bow down, not both together!). It usually doesn’t take much of a sea to create a big slap of the stern when the bow lifts. If not your boat, lucky!

With cats, the centre of bouyancy is much further aft, so the sterns don’t move vertically as much. Even so, a stern dropping 1/2 a metre is a fearsome slap on the head.

A sugar scoop stern is submerged… are you suggesting that it comes all the way up out of the water, then slams the MOB on the head? I did see accidents with sterns that aren’t submerged but have some plateau added as a swimming platform. Totally different setup and dangerous.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

A sugar scoop stern is submerged… are you suggesting that it comes all the way up out of the water, then slams the MOB on the head? I did see accidents with sterns that aren’t submerged but have some plateau added as a swimming platform. Totally different setup and dangerous.

A properly designed stern in the old days puts the horizontal part of the hull right at or slightly above the waterline - anything submerged when not planing or surfing will cause drag. Some newer designs with flatter and wider stern sections are now submerged, with the idea that water force at a certain speed will lift the stern up and eliminate the drag. The boat will need more power at lower boat speeds to overcome the greater form and surface area drag, but will go faster with a steadier hull at faster boat speeds. But even with a stern submerged a few inches - still a problem for swimmers when the ends pitch a couple of feet.

Take a look at almost any cruiser/racer monohull of almost any vintage - the back edge of the hull is above the waterline. Same with IMOCAs. That’s what creates the stern area danger zone when the boat is pitching.

[OneBoatman]

Great job on the recovery in very tough conditions. Carrying a chute in those conditions is not for faint of heart but doing it near the shipping channel is not something I would do. It's a shame the boat behind you that attempted to render assistance fouled his prop for his effort to help. Everything on a boat can be fixed so long as your boat is still afloat and can make it back to the dock safely.

[Bill_Giles]

The key to recovering a MOB is stopping the boat close to the victim. This crew seems to have done (almost) everything right.

As an aside I always wondered why a lot of sailors have their life line permanently on their life jacket (or PFD) even if it is not regularly attached to the jackstay/hard point. I came to realise that it is a very handy strop to attach to a halyard in the event of a MOB. But I guess that racers would prefer to be uncluttered.

I do very much subscribe to the use of crutch straps. However, some professionals who wear a PFD all the time don’t like them because of rubbing.