Best hard bottom paint to be cleaned as needed

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by NPMSailor

I gave my advice and opinion. I didn't always use and then I did. When I did it made a big difference. I am not here to argue with people. Go to Facebook for that.

You came and made a pretty substantive point but the minute somebody asks a valid question about it, you take your ball and go home. Good to know.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

You came and made a pretty substantive point but the minute somebody asks a valid question about it, you take your ball and go home. Good to know.

He actually kicked the ball right back by stating that he had tried it with & without and that "it made a big difference." You asked valid questions and I'm sure there are other threads and info about this if people are interested. Personally, I prefer his advice about consistently combative CF posters taking it to Facebook.

[Dsanduril]

The only reason the big paint manufacturers don't put cayenne in their paint is because it is so effective that you'll never need to buy paint again. And it is so highly regulated that they can't get approval to use it. All a big anti-cayenne, anti-consumer cabal. If you really want to discourage growth use ghost pepper, now that will keep the stuff away.

On a serious note, Interlux did team up with McCormick (the spice company) to test various peppers. The results? Do you see pepper listed in any of their paints? The only patent on capsaicin in antifouling paint was allowed to expire, presumably because it wasn't worth the renewal fee.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

So my vessel is in Oyster Bay on the Long Island sound, the environment is prolific with life, I have been there for 6 years and have asked around, no one comes out of the water without significant growth on the bottom of their vessels.
I want to put a hard paint/epoxy on the bottom and clean every month during the season, the ablative paints are imho completely ineffective , is anybody else doing this? I do not race, I just enjoy diving and appreciate my vessels hull speed when not encumbered with growth.

I have had very good results with Hempel Globic hard bottom paints. It's quite easy to keep clean with a brush, 3M pad or even a metal scraper when it's at the end of its life. I get about 3 years between applications in high-foul tropical water. Normally I only have to clean the hull once or twice the first year, but by the end of the 3rd year it's every 2 months or so.

https://www.hempel.com/products/globic-9000-78900

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

On a serious note, Interlux did team up with McCormick (the spice company) to test various peppers. The results? Do you see pepper listed in any of their paints? The only patent on capsaicin in antifouling paint was allowed to expire, presumably because it wasn't worth the renewal fee.

I once asked Stan Sussman (then the Interlux West Coast technical sales rep) about the use of pepper in anti fouling paint. He just laughed. It doesn't work, there is no scientific evidence that it does and personal anecdotes aside, it's essentially a wives' tale.

[Elleroo]

Originally Posted by David B

Works for a lot us us actually - including the Clipper Round the World fleet (and many of us on this forum from what I have read over the years.
Understand your business is scrubbing bottoms though.

Knowing Knox-Johnson, he probably gets given the antifoul free. And those boats don't sit still long enough to get fouled.


A past boss was a ship owner, and used Micron exclusively on his tanker fleet. Some fell off the pallets and got onto the race boat. A wipe with an abrasive pad was enough to clean it.

[ron17571]

Fiesty opinions here! As a freshwater sailor who lurks here to learn stuff.
I would add that I've read about using some kind of Teflon clear coat over bottom paint that helped keep things clean. Sorry, I can't remember the brand name. I liked the pepper idea also.

[I14]

I am a semi-retired paint and polymer chemist and I make my own A/F (but don't claim to be at the forefront of development!). It is a traditional ablative type but with good coats applied we can get 2-3 years between recoats here in Auckland NZ. I do dive on the boat periodically. I did experiment with a waterborne 2K hard A/F that worked very well on my raft. Being a diver I always liked the hard ones on my racing keelboats as we could sand them smooth without losing all the coating. The WB hard one I made was primarily cuprous oxide based but had pyrithione adjuvants that gradually succumb to local toxicology regs over time. The leaching rate has to be a function of the solubility/porosity of the polymeric binder system so I agree even the hard ones gradually go and the actives wash out. I also make foul release (FR) coatings for myself and mates' props and rudders, silicon chemistry and to work they require the coating to have a very low coefficient of friction as well as being soft so hard teflon types don't work as well. I have occasionally put these FR ones as touch ups on the hull and they do work but wouldn't survive slings etc needed to haul the boats periodically.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by NPMSailor

I have done it every paint and have minimal slime when I haul out.

Originally Posted by fstbttms

If you've used it every time, how do you know it's an improvement over your unadulterated paint? Also, where does your boat live?

Originally Posted by Exile

He actually kicked the ball right back by stating that he had tried it with & without and that "it made a big difference." You asked valid questions and I'm sure there are other threads and info about this if people are interested. Personally, I prefer his advice about consistently combative CF posters taking it to Facebook.

The only way to truly know is when you haul out next time for bottom paint, do a 1ft. square patch without the pepper and check it out the next cleaning.

[shimari]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

You should look for your diver to either raise his rate or outright refuse to clean it. I have done both.

But seriously, you should look for increased difficulty in cleaning the product. Coppercoat seems to do a decent job against shelled animal fouling here in the Bay Area but it is a poor performer against algae and soon becomes difficult to impossible to truly clean. I don’t know any hull cleaners who like it. Not one.

This matches what my diver told me. He said unless I get her cleaned every 3 weeks he wouldn't clean her.

@fstbttms - I presume it's the algae build-up that makes it so difficult to clean? Do you happen to have any copper coat videos?

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

The only way to truly know is when you haul out next time for bottom paint, do a 1ft. square patch without the pepper and check it out the next cleaning.

Practical Sailor did that for us, although the sample size is 1:

Spicy Experiment
In November 2007, we enlisted one of our test boats, a Cape Dory 25 in Sarasota, Fla., to find out whether there is any validity to the old salt’s tale that adding cayenne pepper to bottom paint increases its antifouling ability. Now, nearly a year later, we can call this myth busted.

The Cape Dory—daysailed several times a week, cruised occasionally, and kept on a mooring in the warm waters of Sarasota Bay—was a prime test platform for the experiment. Testers applied Interlux Bottomkote alone to the boat’s port bow and starboard after sections. Bottomkote mixed with a large amount of cayenne pepper was applied to the boat’s starboard bow and aft port quarters. The bottom was cleaned in the water every three to six weeks and was hauled for a serious scrubbing in late April 2008.

After 10 months, testers noted no difference in growth between the sections with and without cayenne. There was an even distribution of some hard growth and considerable soft growth.

[fstbttms]

"After 10 months, testers noted no difference in growth between the sections with and without cayenne. There was an even distribution of some hard growth and considerable soft growth."

Of course. Because it's bullsh*t. But some people will believe anything they are told. Never more apparent than this period in history.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by shimari

I presume it's the algae build-up that makes it so difficult to clean?

No. It's that any algae build-up is difficult to remove from Coppercoat. This is not the case with anti fouling paints.

Originally Posted by shimari

Do you happen to have any copper coat videos?

No. We avoid the product.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by AA3JY

If you can still find it…

https://www.pettitpaint.com/products...d/trinidad-sr/

..been using it with much success..from the Chesapeake Bay to Fl.

I was using Trinidad Pro with Irgarol but it failed. Pettit offered Barracuda, now Triton Odyssey, as a replacement. It is awesome. Way better than other products we've used. In fact, because it's not easily found down island, I'm shipping it for this seasons application. Great stuff.

[Pelagic]

Have not read all the suggestions but I switched to commercial ship bottom paint by Jotun so that I can dive and clean for years without wearing out the paint

Rated for 90 months , I'm happy with 5 years

Disclaimer
Jotun antifouling products are intended for professional use only and have been specially formulated with increased levels of copper oxide as well as strong biocides for use on vessels and structures operating for long periods in testing conditions where extended service intervals are required.*
The Health & Safety Executive (HSE) deem them 'For professional use only'. This means we can only sell Jotun antifouling products to customers who confirm at the point of ordering that they will be applied in accordance with the appropriate HSE regulations.*


https://www.jotun.com/Datasheets/Dow...0__Euk__GB.pdf