Pfaff 130 - what make's them so popular?

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by unimacs

Thanks. I was hoping to get some positive feedback on the 230 since those seem a little easier to come by. I've heard that Pfaff uses different needles though they aren't much different than standard ones. Have you had any problems finding needles for yours?

They are a bit thinner and round on the fastening end. So far I've got enough needles I got with the machine when I bought it but here https://www.sewingmachine-parts.com/...hine-pfaff-230

[Russ]

Pfaff uses standard needles it's the Singer 302 needles that you can't get any more except in size 16.

[Quadrille in JB]

Another very reliable and strong machine is a Consew, made in Japan (I think made by Seiko as it has a lot of Seiko marked parts on it). I purchased my 1965 machine from a neighbor whose deceased dad had used it commercially.
On a recent trip to Rio Dulche, we visited a large canvas shop and they were using 6 of these vintage machines. That says a lot for their reliability.
It has a large external clutch motor which will sew through anything that will fit under the walking foot.
The guys that sew leather for a living use these a lot so Sunbrealla and Stataglas don't phase it at all.
The downside it that it's cast iron and very heavy, but it has a knee operated foot lift which is very handy and it doesn't do zig-zag.
I have to get out my old Singer for that.
There are many of these available on ebay.
Bill in JB

[CarinaPDX]

To be specific: the Pfaff 130 is a rotary sewing machine, while most machines are reciprocating. In reciprocating machines the shuttle (the mechanism under the surface) reverses direction instead of rotating continuously in the same direction. The faster a reciprocating mechanism is operated the more the force accelerating and decelerating the shuttle and drive for each stitch - hence the vibration and noise. A full rotary mechanism builds momentum and operates smoothly without reversing direction. In the case of the 130 a large external motor can be used which allows it to sew very fast through thick fabric. The quality and precision of the mechanism is also part of the magic. In the post-war period many American housewives acquired the 130, but they were also a favorite with tailors - testifying to their durability. Later they became popular with canvas workers. Ones that were used professionally may be showing the wear but the large number of little-used home machines make an attractive option.

Greg

[JPA Cate]

But I think as long as I stick to V-69 thread instead of V-92 and I'm careful it should be OK.

If your Viking has a really good thread tensioning system, start using ptfe thread for everything that gets sun exposure. Use a #14 needle with it, to help with the tension. Everything you make with it will last longer. It comes in black, white, and clear.

My old Pfaff would accommodate a #110 needle and was able to handle the V-92 dacron thread (never tried ptfe thread in it), but it didn't like to reverse with many layers--broke a few needles that way. But it was a home machine, you know, so I had to learn how to do what I wanted, which may have constituted a minor abuse. Never mind, your Vikings are doing a good job for you, and that's what matters. For cushions, use the dacron thread, but for weather cloths, Lifesling bag covers, awnings, anything that will get substantial sun exposure, use ptfe thread. Our old Sunbrella boom bag lasted over 10 yrs., and the Tenara thread was still all perfect--I had not had to re-stitch it after 4 yrs.

Ann

[unimacs]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

To be specific: the Pfaff 130 is a rotary sewing machine, while most machines are reciprocating. In reciprocating machines the shuttle (the mechanism under the surface) reverses direction instead of rotating continuously in the same direction. The faster a reciprocating mechanism is operated the more the force accelerating and decelerating the shuttle and drive for each stitch - hence the vibration and noise. A full rotary mechanism builds momentum and operates smoothly without reversing direction. In the case of the 130 a large external motor can be used which allows it to sew very fast through thick fabric. The quality and precision of the mechanism is also part of the magic. In the post-war period many American housewives acquired the 130, but they were also a favorite with tailors - testifying to their durability. Later they became popular with canvas workers. Ones that were used professionally may be showing the wear but the large number of little-used home machines make an attractive option.

Greg

Thanks, that helps explain some of it at least.

Over the last year or so I've picked up and repaired 3 sewing machines that people were giving away because they weren't working or the folks just wanted them gone: The Viking that I've already mentioned, a beast of a Kenmore, and a Montgomery Wards machine that's the least capable of the three. That latter I should have passed on. I spent way too much time on it and it's no good at any of the things I want to do with a sewing machine, - but it is really quiet and smooth.

I'm only going to keep one and I'll sell all three if I end up getting a Pfaff. The problem is that only the Viking is really worth very much.

That's part of why I posted the question instead of continuing to pick up random machines and hoping to strike gold. I saw that the stitch length went all the way up to 8 on the Montgomery Wards machine and thought: "Wow, an 8mm stitch length..." but 8 apparently means 4.


Anyway, your post made me curious so I checked. The Viking is a rotary and the other two are oscillating.

[unimacs]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

If your Viking has a really good thread tensioning system, start using ptfe thread for everything that gets sun exposure. Use a #14 needle with it, to help with the tension. Everything you make with it will last longer. It comes in black, white, and clear.

My old Pfaff would accommodate a #110 needle and was able to handle the V-92 dacron thread (never tried ptfe thread in it), but it didn't like to reverse with many layers--broke a few needles that way. But it was a home machine, you know, so I had to learn how to do what I wanted, which may have constituted a minor abuse. Never mind, your Vikings are doing a good job for you, and that's what matters. For cushions, use the dacron thread, but for weather cloths, Lifesling bag covers, awnings, anything that will get substantial sun exposure, use ptfe thread. Our old Sunbrella boom bag lasted over 10 yrs., and the Tenara thread was still all perfect--I had not had to re-stitch it after 4 yrs.

Ann

Thanks, that's helpful advice. What makes for a good tensioning system?

[unimacs]

In addition to asking this forum I've done poking around in other places including a forum dedicated to old Pfaffs where I learned a bit of history. So I'll post what I've found in case others finds it useful. There's plenty of speculation on my part mixed in with facts. Maybe folks here can confirm or deny.

It seems like the biggest reason the 130 has enjoyed popularity among sailers is something that a few people have told me in this thread. It's a really well built and well engineered machine. So much so that it was in production for over 20 years.

Not only was it in production for over 20 years, but the same basic mechanical design lived on in subsequent models like the 230, 260, 320 and others. And much of the design was shared by Pfaff's true industrial machines.

And because it first came out in the 30's and was sold well into the 50's the 130 had all manor of accessories and methods of powering it, including attached motors, table mounted motors, treadles, and hand cranks. Aside from maybe treadles, all the different power options are of potential interest to sailers.

What finally killed the 130 was the advent of "automatic" models from other European sewing machine manufacturers. "Automatic" in this case means the ability to sew intricate and fancy stitches automatically. This was usually done through the use of additional cams. Pfaff's initial response was to manufacture an embroidery unit for the 130 but it was noisy and not well received. Sales of the 130 nosedived. Eventually Pfaff came out with the 230 which had a built in embroidery unit and an updated design, - but the same basic mechanicals. And not long after that came even newer models as innovation accelerated.

(now a lot of speculation)

130s started to find their way to the 2nd hand market in significant numbers. Since sailers don't care about fancy stitches, they and others snapped them up. I'm sure plenty of affluent sailers had been using 130s already. But now they were affordable to more sailers.

Over time, second hand 130s in good condition have become more scare so prices have risen.

I've owned vintage bikes and cameras as well and the same thing tends to happen. A certain vintage model gets some good reviews/earns a good reputation. They develop a following and before too long, prices go up. Sometimes a whole lot in a short period of time.

The good news for me I guess is that apparently 230s are mostly as good as 130s. They have the added and unnecessary complexity of the embroidery unit but otherwise should sew the same. And they seem easier to find for less money.

Simpler is always more appealing to me so I'll keep an eye out for 130s. Frankly, 230s are kind of ugly in comparison. But it's good to know that they are an option.

I appreciate all the replies from folks here and I'm happy to have found that Pfaff forum on groups.io

[unimacs]

There may not be such a thing as Pfaff 320 that I mentioned above. There is a 360.

And it's worth mentioning that there are some "non automatic" 230s and 360s that don't have the embroidery units and therefore even more like their ancestor the 130.

[JPA Cate]

You could actually do button holes and simple embroidery with the Pfaff 130, but it was tedious. Just like hemming, in that you could set it up and do manually what automatic hemmers do. But since it came first in my experience, and I learned how to do it, it was "natural" to me.

For you, I would think the 230 would serve you fine as long as all the rest of the engineering is like the 130.

As to your take on it, I think your hypothesis is right on. There was a time when cruisers left on the boat they had, sometimes strengthening them first, and they were largely an impecunious bunch. So, a used, tough, cheap machine had appeal. And the word spread.

Just my opinion, but the simpler, the better; and, the sturdier the better, too.

Ann

[more]

look this pfaff , incredible machine.
https://youtu.be/IgTFsvEuZp0

[Franziska]

As the Pfaff 130 is a German machine, it was highly popular over here, you may want to search on www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de for one.

There are some for about 70-80€ or less.
Following Ann's advice I bought one made in 1950 over there for about 80€.
Mind you shipping may be expensive pending where you are. These are heavy machines.
Not sure if you would need to pay import taxes though for a vintage machine.

It runs very well and is a joy to work with despite being 71 years old.
Most spares and needles are easily available for low cost (for an 71 old machine!!!).

As they are very reliable and strong they are still popular in a lot of areas of the world.

I also love that the machine has a history. Sometimes I wish it could tell me what was made with her help. Kids clothes after the war? Starting a small business after bad times? Elaborate evening robes :-)

[JPA Cate]

We did lots with mine: kids', friends' kids, and my clothes and costumes; a lined wool cloak; pannier bags for the bicycles; a 3 man backpacking tent; cushion covers for chairs (home and boat); a dog pack for the dog to carry his food and dish backpacking; weather cloths, a couple of water catchers and awnings; many sets of fitted bed sheets; dinghy carry bags; tool rolls; hemming jeans for Jim; jeans to shorts conversions; jeans patches; a couple of wind scoops and a Sunbrella spinnaker turtle; and I made a purse into which you could fit 6 Pacifico beers, from sunbrella scraps, while we were in Mexico. It did just about everything, but not clews of sails--they had to be hand sewn or taken to a sailmaker.

Ann

PS. Also made wrap-around skirts for friends, and some of the women in Vanuatu.

[EarlWer]

Pfaff 130 for $540 CDN
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-passe-temps-...130/1564699648

Pfaff 230 for $60 CDN
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-passe-temps-...ble/1553582082

[unimacs]

Ann: I have to confess that I had to look up "impecunious".

All: I've found a 130 that looks to be in good shape and should be arriving sometime in the next week.

There were 230s and other Pfaffs that could be found for less money but the 130 has the features I need and should be easier to maintain.

Apparently it has a name given to it by the previous owner. I made assurances that I will always address the machine as "Miss Penny".