Surveyor won’t go above 6’

[Fore and Aft]

Rimrace your painting some broad strokes there. I am not sure what's so special about a Chris Craft, they are just varnished butter boxes. I worked with a guy who did seamless planking and to be honest his biggest challenge was matching the colour and grain of the timber planks.
I did a 9000 hour boatbuilding apprenticeship, then built and repaired boats for 20 years. Finally I did a 12 month distance education course. Then sat 5 exam papers at the local maritime college before I could call myself a marine surveyor. If that wasn't bad enough to get liability insurance I then jumped through a lot more hoops. But that's just me.
Cheers

[Rumrace]

You have rare credentials my oversized brush was not intended for. Again I’m not specifically talking about marine surveyors. All surveyors cars boats houses motivated by insurance requirement too often just go through the motions.
It’s why a recommend doing your own darn survey or at least have the knowledge to follow a surveyor.
I watched a surveyor tell some sucker a boat repair on deck looked good. I stopped the buyer in the parking lot. Told him there was pox 2 feet right under the “ good repair”. It’s a poor cosmetic patch to a write off problem. Surveyor has no liability for his assumption. Has no tools to seize.
I know the average surveyor could not find a void in a glass hull from a poor repair or be motivated to find it.
As to the Chris it’s one of 3 boats ever made. We didn’t want to listen to old boat tales we wanted to know the condition of the wood. Matching wood no worries. Stash of old wood retrieved from underwater gold mine of logs. Not that that mattered much. Most the boat is newly painted or stained with age.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

I think the bottom line on surveyors is they are small businesses based on absolute minimal effort maximum income and no liability. Survey the boat yourself. Educate yourself because Surveyors carry no liability.

Not true. Most SAMS Accredited Surveyors and many NAMS Certified Surveyors carry liability insurance.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

I think the bottom line on surveyors is they are small businesses based on absolute minimal effort maximum income and no liability. Survey the boat yourself. Educate yourself because Surveyors carry no liability and are a product of boardrooms trained to deny your claim. The stuff they miss has ruined lives so don’t bank on any stranger with a couple night courses diplomas with a half million of your hard earned cash. You have to have a survey to get financing or insurance. Frankly the last surveyor i had was the first one I listened to.
A friend just got a 1930’s Chris running. Curtiss V8 open pushrods aircraft engine. Try to find a surveyor not completely full of BS to survey a wood boat. We actually challenged the insurance company to provide us with a surveyor with qualifications. A master carpenter gave him the go ahead. A fella so skilled at restoring wood boats he’s famous just north of Toronto. I watched him put new planks into a 50’s hardtop Chris. Rare model with a matching Dinghy on the roof. I surveyed the Curtiss engine and committed to getting it running. Has copper jacket barrels someone poured oil in them saving the beast.
Plumber Electrician mechanic welder metallurgist painter are all highly educated trained professionals who don’t claim to be experts on the other profession. They all carry liability insurance because they are lawfully accountable for their work and professional ethic. You don’t hire a handyman and get a permit to proceed.
Climb your own mast or gamble.

Once again... BS. granted surveying a woodie is becoming a rare thing for surveyors. Becoming a surveyor is no small task, They are not the same thing as home inspectors. But having said that even a skilled surveyor can only assess what they can see, and yes sometimes things get missed, but to say that they are not skilled or have no training or accreditations just proves that you have as little knowledge on this topic as you have had on other posts.

For alot of us with boats in decent condition, getting a survey is just a part of the game and a decent surveyor is a good person to know and sometimes they find things even you don't know about on your own boat!

back to the topic. A surveyor surveys the boat, but generally they do not climb the rig to inspect it. They do what they can at deck level. If the mast happens to be on the ground (like in Toronto every winter) then yes they will do a visual. But a rigger is required to do a full rigging inspection (no different than an engine inspection). Now finding a rigger in the Toronto area... better have a 4 leave clover at hand!!

[Cheechako]

Riggers do rig surveys, not Surveyors.

Whomever goes up needs someone they trust knows what they are doing down below, not some wannabee sailor.

[gonesail]

i had one surveyor go up the mast. but the last survey i had done was only done at deck level.

[Rumrace]

The small task is clients shopping surveyors until the surveyor can only do so much which is the minimal required by insurance.
They don’t carry liability for bad advise. They have to carry liability insurance to operate a business on your property or assets.
If you want the mast inspected give the surveyor the go ahead and pay the bill. A smart surveyor will call a rigger. Don’t ask a requirement of a bank or insurance company to forecast the future of your boat. It will either be a guess based on years of 2 hour glances at old boats many times or BS and you have not paid for it. Suspect a mast get a rigger. Suspect the Gen set call Onan.
Purchasing a used car you may want your mechanic to survey any repair needed to certify. The seller may require you tow the car to the mechanic and not drive it. So if you want the car pay the bill. Used boats are no different.
As to the Chris no worries. Boat saved no silly survey needed. Fully insured.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

The small task is clients shopping surveyors until the surveyor can only do so much which is the minimal required by insurance.
They don’t carry liability for bad advise. They have to carry liability insurance to operate a business on your property or assets.

Don't you get tired of being wrong ? E&O insurqance is common among SAMS & NAMS surveyors
https://www.trustedchoice.com/n/54/m...yor-insurance/

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

As to the Chris no worries. Boat saved no silly survey needed. Fully insured.

Fully insured without a Survey (in Canada) HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!! Insurance companies are starting to require surveys for even just Liability insurance... Been there this past spring. No broker will be interested in talking to you without a recent survey if you want to be fully insured!

[Rumrace]

Rigging Toronto
Fogh Marine - fast folks
DC Sailing
The Rigging Shop
Wilson Yates like 1969 I think
Genco on King Street since 1954. They do custom canvas too.
The list is long Oakville Whitby also.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by thinwater

If he won't go up the rig he is not a sailboat surveyor.

I don't live far from you, and I haven't met a surveyor that went up the mast. If the surveyor weighs 250lbs+, are you going to personally winch him up?

If he wants to use a rigger, tell him that is his expense

Won't he just pass the expense to the customer?

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Rigging Toronto
Fogh Marine - fast folks
DC Sailing
The Rigging Shop
Wilson Yates like 1969 I think
Genco on King Street since 1954. They do custom canvas too.
The list is long Oakville Whitby also.

having been boating sailing in the area for 30+ Years...

Rigging Toronto - who is this supposed to be?
Fogh Marine - fast folks -focus on small boats unless that has suddenly changed
DC Sailing - who is this supposed to be?
The Rigging Shop - totally legit and good company, they took over seaway spars.
Wilson Yates like 1969 I think - Who/what is this?
Genco on King Street since 1954. They do custom canvas too. Sorry Genco does rigging but have no riggers that will come onsite let alone go up a mast. And you have to triple check their work. I know that family well
The list is long Oakville Whitby also. Swans and Peter are about it (Whitby).

List is much shorter that you think. Many suppliers in that list but that doesn't make them riggers.

[chrisr]

over the years we have purchased about 20 boats, and never ever met any surveyor who will go up a mast

if you want a rig inspection, you need to engage a rigger

but looking at previous comments maybe this is something that changes with location ? ie some parts of the planet surveyors will do it, and other parts not ? interesting...

cheers,

[Rumrace]

Agree I couldn’t get insurance on the Chris but the owner is a collector with 3 other classic and I’ve lost count of rare cars. He has a 1959 Jag 150s insured which never had an extension of an insurance adjuster near it. It’s been rated by Forbes a much higher authority. Took him 8 years to restore the boat and no ones opinion was welcome. Still isn’t, he never cared for assumed opinions or tolerated them. Dodge had something to do with this boat and he doesn’t like Dodge. We think they marinized the aircraft motor. All pushrods rockers crank shaft connecting rods and valves were custom made. Only the forged pistons with skirt machining were off the shelf.
What value would a guy who rolled glass in a factory or assembled mercrusers or hung around a boat yard add. I’m sure the insurance company didn’t ask him 4 questions.

[Hoosiersailor]

I always thought that the main purpose of a pre-purchase inspection of an airplane, boat, house, etc. was to nit pick it for ammunition used to negotiate the final price.