West Marine

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Was it a new, genuine part?

Some old business chains are dinosaurs, and deserve to die off. I don't know where the fault lies in your story, but the dealers need to demand better service, and the manufacturer and distributor need to do better. I can't imagine why an in-stock part can't travel between any two world cities in a week or less.

Another example of old retailers who don't yet get it: during the pandemic, stores closed... my wife orders some socks and a bra from The Bay (large dept store). Never arrived, yet it took like 5 weeks and several calls before The Bay finally refunded. We all know that if it was Amazon, she would have had the stuff in a couple of days (99% probability), and a prompt, hassle-free trace, and refund or resend if it got lost.

The listing said new and it looked new when it arrived. If it was a re-man it was a good quality re-man. Before I found that pump on ebay my first gut reaction was to find bearings for it to replace the failed ones. Cause all the other components were intact. I may have gone that route to save time and $500. But having found the $250 deal with 3-4 day delivery I figured that would be a preferable solution.

[nonav]

Clarification of cranky, before coffee post…

Originally Posted by nonav

The number of WMs I have been to where staff are a fountain of knowledge has unfortunately waned over the years.

There was an older fellow at the WM in Babylon, NY.
who was quite knowledgeable.

Great guy to chat with on occasion👍


I’ll gladly pay extra at my local chandlery for hands on, practical knowledge, when needed.

Recently heard their 316 stainless is often 304, priced at 316.

Will have to bring the magnet, or just order from Dzus, or McMaster Carr when possible.

Hope everyone has a great season!

[C420sailor]

As for the whole price matching thing...

Why?

Why would I go through the extra work of having to find the exact same product, show the associate...for each and every thing I need? It would be one thing if their pricing was relatively competitive and I might have to price match here and there, now and then.

But if I need to price match everything? I’ll sooner go to the place with the better prices and buy there...where I don’t have to play games and do extra homework.

[Fi2010]

Many of the distributors and manufacturers we’ve known over the years dislike Amazon and WM. They work with you initially. However, if they like your product too much, they will copy, import, and sell it for less. The quality won’t be as good as the original, but since they put the small distributor or manufacturer out of business, who will notice?

There’s only a handful of small manufacturers left in the marine industry. Same with the small retail outfits like Defender, Landfall Navigation, Sailrite…

Call the small companies and give them an opportunity to price match or supply you with parts. Small companies tend to be staffed with people passionate about boating. They may even refer you to someone that can help you with an unusual project.

Landfall Navigation frequently refers customers to our company to help out with custom or rush orders related to drag device equipment. Sometimes even boat covers or cushions. Because we are a true manufacturer, we can sew just about anything right away.

We recommend contacting the manufacturer if you need something custom or fast. Even if you purchase through a dealer. This can avoid miscommunication.

[Tellie]

Any business wanting to stay in business will zig and zag with the economy and customer demands. There is no way WM could stay in business with their overhead by catering to the smaller sailboat community. WM does their marketing leg work on where and what areas they make money and where they don't. If my business starting making far more money in clothes and fishing equipment etc. That's the direction I'm taking the business. Can't blame them one bit.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Any business wanting to stay in business will zig and zag with the economy and customer demands.

Agreed. WM will succeed or fail based on how well they judged the market.

Where I differ is that I think many businesses fail because of a short-sighted desire to maximize profit over all else.

I've seen this pattern before, in lots of now-defunct businesses. The founder sees a niche market and appeals to those customers with good products, good service and/or good prices. The business succeeds wildly and grows to a national chain.

Then the bean counters and stockholders take over. They want to focus on only the high-margin products, reduce inventory, staff and service and bleed the company dry of all assets to keep the stockholders happy.

I see WM going down this path. Get rid of all the hardware and replace it with high-profit-margin items. That'll make more money, right?

But there are already high-end clothing stores. They're taking the company out of the successful niche it was founded in and trying to compete in a completely different market.

Maybe they'll make it there. But the track record for this type of pivot isn't good.

[Lemsteraak]

Back when Repass ran WM it was extremely competitive and that is why it grew to be the behemoth it is now. They closed their first retail store, in Palo Alto CA of all places. Quite a success story.

I think they are trying to find their place in this new retail environment. I went in to buy a few bronze screws to tide me over until I got my big order from the manufacturer and the $.36 screw was $2.78 each at WM. When I asked about the price they told me they have to mark them up so much because there is so much theft. I can see why, but they aren't going to sell many screws that way.

They had a great outlet store in Oakland CA where you could get about anything dirt cheap but those days are over too.

I think we are going back to the old model of the local one off chandlery that can help you find stuff. We are lucky here in Portland Oregon, we have a great local chandlery. Even if WM is cheaper, I buy from our local guys because they know their products and their advice is invaluable.

[George_SD]

I'm going to say something that many will disagree with - I like West Marine and I will shop there knowing that their prices are higher. Let me explain a bit - sometimes it's not about the price alone. It is about the ability to get something i really need, within 5 minutes of travel from the marina (like a seacock elbow or head rebuild kit, some specialty stainless hardware, some running riggings, etc). Other times I will shop there because I can actually touch and see something before paying for it. It is important to look at things (especially bulky or expensive ones) before ordering. I also like their return policy.

The bottom line - i want marine shop to stay in business and be local to me - regardless if they are small chandlery or a big corporate chain.

Yes, I still shop on Amazon, Defender and other places, but i try to spread my dollars all across. If WM goes away - it will make our lives more difficult, despite their high prices and problems from time to time.

Lastly, I try to not give business to Amazon unless there is no other option. That company has been good for competition and product diversity initially, but they are exhibiting all the same behavior that any other giant did - PacBell/AT&T, GE, etc. What's worse is that their power is 10x in the technology age of things and they are not good for small business (which is the majority of businesses in USA), they are really bad for innovators and inventors (copy cat products even under Amazon house brand, lack of enforcement, QA, etc)

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Lemsteraak

...and the $.36 screw was $2.78 each at WM...

That actually doesn't bother me much. Of course I'm going to get a better price with a big order direct from a manufacturer or warehouse. If the local shop has to stock thousands of small parts, which sell in small quantities, I expect those higher costs to be reflected in the price. And I'd gladly pay it, for the convenience of having all those parts in stock locally.

Originally Posted by George_SD

...sometimes it's not about the price alone. It is about the ability to get something i really need, within 5 minutes of travel from the marina

Exactly the point. It costs money to keep that inventory in stock, close to the customer.

My concern is that I've seen WM moving away from that market. When I first bought my current boat, I decided I'd like to have a second pair of chocks on the bow for a better angle on my dock lines. WM had only ONE chock in stock of the right type. Over then next year or so, I checked other WM stores wherever I was. Again, either none or one in stock. In fact, I noticed just about all small parts were scarce at all the WM stores I visited. Many items had just one in stock (even those which are used in pairs, like chocks.)

I assume some bean counter at the home office decided that they had "too much inventory" and needed to reduce it to save overhead. Besides, why waste space on those small-margin items when we can sell the suckers high-end clothing and Yeti coolers at a huge markup?

To me, abandoning your core customer and your successful niche is the beginning of the end of a retail chain. I hope I'm wrong and they return to the market which made them successful. But it's not up to me, it's up to the marketplace. Maybe I'm just no longer in a profitable demographic.

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Maybe I'm just no longer in a profitable demographic.

This. Why would you cater to a declining demographic (people that fix their own stuff) who beats you up on margin AND who costs more to service (either more knowledgeable staff who cost more and/or will have spend more time with you).

Its easier to sell a shirt and cooler to the dad going to the sandbar for the weekend who has disposable income.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

My concern is that I've seen WM moving away from that market. When I first bought my current boat, I decided I'd like to have a second pair of chocks on the bow for a better angle on my dock lines. WM had only ONE chock in stock of the right type. Over then next year or so, I checked other WM stores wherever I was. Again, either none or one in stock. In fact, I noticed just about all small parts were scarce at all the WM stores I visited. Many items had just one in stock (even those which are used in pairs, like chocks.)

I assume some bean counter at the home office decided that they had "too much inventory" and needed to reduce it to save overhead. Besides, why waste space on those small-margin items when we can sell the suckers high-end clothing and Yeti coolers at a huge markup?

Well, as just reported, "the $.36 screw was $2.78 each at WM"... that's a high markup. And I suspect that most specialized marine hardware, especially the known brands (eg Harken) have a substantial markup too. So I don't think margin is so much the issue. probably more to do with low volume, and length of time for that inventory to turn over. Still, that's the chandlery business...

I haven't been inside of a WM for a few years because they closed all the ones in Canada... but when i was last in one, I recall a decent array of clothes, all relatively expensive (but all point-of-sale name-brand yachtie clothing is, right? Outside of clearance outlets).I also recall some nice WM-branded apparel at a more reasonable price, and occasionally on sale. Maybe 6 years ago, I bought 2 WM fleece pullovers at a decent price. So it seemed to me that at that time clothing was just part of the offering, and not the focus. That was then, anyway.

[Tellie]

Where I am at in Ft. Lauderdale WM has their premier store. Right behind it in about a one mile square radius is probably the largest collection of marine chandlery business in the world. Anyone that knows this area knows the local saying "Anything you need for your boat is behind Lesters Diner." Just about anything boat related found in this WM can be found less expensively within less than a mile of the WM store. About three miles away is an "Out Door World" whose fishing gear selection is a hundred times better than WM. Less than 1,000 yards away from WM is "McDonalds" hardware where you can get SS and bronze screws, nuts and bolts, etc. a lot cheaper than WM and in large bulk. Heck another 1,000 yards in the opposite direction is "Sailor Man" that sells used marine equipment and a large selection of SS and bronze fittings far less than WM. Pacer electric is about four miles away and even though they are hurting a bit right now with supplier issues they are still stocked a hundred times better than WM. WM used to sell the Katadyn watermaker products even though my shop is half a mile away where you could not only get the same thing less expensive but real advice, help, and parts if needed. Gone are the days of the WM that catered to the small sailing crowd. I was shocked when Pam Wall (One of the finest female sailors in the world) no longer worked at this WM. The crowd just simply changed. 2/3 of the store is all shirts shorts, fishing gear, coolers, kayaks, floats, kids water toys etc. and this stuff is still slowly pushing out more of the boating basics such as repair gear, blocks lines electric etc. I don't see how WM could survive here if they were just selling the type of
equipment they used to just 15 years ago. Now to be fair, Ft. Lauderdale is a lot different than most WM locations in as much as there are far far more boaters here than in most places in the world. But I seriously doubt that WM could survive off of just selling to the serious DIY boating crowd. The competition is just too fierce. But well they certainly do with Tee shirts and floats. Maybe it's time I should start selling Tee shirts too. Hey how about a CF Tee shirt? Only $67.95

[loneshark64]

I just had to get a macerator pump and hose. I need it fast. I searched and found a good price plus shipping, supposedly in stock at an online marine store I have bought from in the past and placed the order. Two hours later they emailed and said the pump was back ordered for 3-4 weeks. I called and canceled.

Then I searched and ordered from another place I have bought from. They were more expensive and also charged shipping and said it was in stock. Same damn thing happened. Pump was not actually in stock. Except this time they said too late, already shipped the hose. Which was BS, it was like an hour later. So I paid $9 to ship a foot of hose that is non returnable because it was cut.

Then I checked the local outfit, Hamilton Marine. They didn’t have it.,

Then I checked Amazon. Their supplier was bachelor number 2, above.

Last I tried West Marine. In stock. Free shipping. I ordered. Two hours later I get a shipping confirmation and tracking number. It will be here in two days. WM a cost $23 morethan the cheapest other, but with free shipping and they actually had it and shipped it same day.

Worth every penny.

[capn ken]

Originally Posted by Rackman

I think part of the draw is that you can get the stuff on the spot. They do price match too...

not any more

[wingssail]

I think the marine chandlery business is tough and getting tougher with so many online stores to shop from.

But I have no sympathy for West Marine. Years ago we had five good chandleries in the Seattle area. I shopped them all. Then West Marine started lowering their prices and reducing their inventory. If you needed four 1/4 x 20 screws you needed to get there pretty early because if some other person got there first...that was the entire inventory ("We can get it here by Tuesday. But I need it today!")

The other stores couldn't compete and closed.

Then West Marine, without competition, were able to raise their prices, (however they never changed their limited inventory policy.)

So now people are buying elsewhere, online, and West Marine is trying to make it by selling high priced clothing.

Sorry. West Marine is my last resort. They had a good market but they are screwing it. I am not loyal to a company which is not loyal to me.