Cruising guides, how up to date do they need to be?

[GoodShipLolipop]

I spent a few minutes on eBay looking for cheap copies of some cruising guides. I can find older cruising guides and similar books for $5 or so pretty consistently, but the most recent couple of editions are generally ten times that.

So just how up to date do cruising guides need to be? Is this one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions? Specifically I'm looking at World Cruising Routes and the Waggoner PNW cruising guide, but I'll be adding lots of similar books to the collection in the future so I'd appreciate a general answer as well as a specific one.

[LoudMusic]

I suppose it depends on the information in those guides that you're most interested in.

Navigation information slowly creeps out of date naturally as the Earth reshapes. But sometimes it can come all at once in a large geological event.

Information about businesses such as fuel docks, marinas, restaurants and bars, can change quite quickly as people tend to be somewhat fickle and businesses come and go or change staff resulting in very different experiences.

Natural beauty like scenic coves or environmental restriction areas are often fairly consistent for long periods of time.

A guide to Abacos, Bahamas, from just four years ago would be near worthless today. Hurricane Dorian changed everything there and they are still recovering.

The pandemic has also shut a lot of businesses, or caused them to dramatically change their mode of operation. But likely the wild scenery has improved with less tourism. That was certainly the case for us during 2020 and 2021. Though is probably less-so now that everyone is rushing back out for travel.

[toddster8]

Maybe check to see how often the authors update them. An edition or so out of date may still be useful. You just have to take some sorts of information as being tentative.

Some electronically-delivered guides send out free updates! E.g. Salish Sea Pilot.

I seem to buy a new Waggoners every five years or so. Probably worth getting the new one with post-covid changes, eel-grass beds mapped in anchorages, etc.

Some old guides are just the only ones there are.

You would think that stuff like “World Cruising Routes” and pilot charts would be forever. But the world is changing. They ought to be good for ten or twenty years anyway. How often do they get updated?

The latest edition of Coast Pilots and Sailing Directions can always be downloaded for free but stuff outside the immediate shipping channel tends to get neglected. The ones (and the charts!) for my area show docks and beacons that were destroyed 70-90 years ago.

[JPA Cate]

Well, you have to accept that they are liable to be out of date in some respects as soon as they are published. Beyond that, don't trust the placement of buoys and whatnot [aids to navigation], as those change quite a bit. However, the geography changes little. Depths in coves don't change as much as in rivers with sand banks, which wander all over the place, anyway. When you go somewhere new, it is mostly about exploring, anyway. And watching the depth sounder. Things like Customs Offices and Port Captains Offices rarely change from a new guide, but any major weather event can destroy them, AND there will be ways to find them.

You could do an experiment and buy an antique guide for somewhere, and then also the newest. It is a good way to learn what's missing. In fact, people used to update their own cruising guides from friends with a new one.

Cheers.

Ann

[GoodShipLolipop]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

You could do an experiment and buy an antique guide for somewhere, and then also the newest. It is a good way to learn what's missing. In fact, people used to update their own cruising guides from friends with a new one.

Cheers.

Ann

That actually sounds like a great idea, thanks!


Edit: Ordered a 1999 Waggoner, and a new 2022 copy from the publisher. Looking forward to comparing the two.

[Mike OReilly]

It really depends on the area, and how often they are updated. I used to work for one large cruising guide maker. We updated every year. Information didn't change a lot from year to year. So buying a guide a few versions old would be no big deal.

But if the period between updates is many years (as most are), then it might make a big difference.

[TrentePieds]

GoodShipLollipop - sailing out of Seattle - said: "So just how up to date do cruising guides need to be?"

The answer is: "Not very".

Sailing in the Gulf Islands (BC) I carry a 2015 version of Waggoner's (somebody else's discard), and a 1975 issue of Cruising Guide to the Gulf Islands by my long-ago friend Bill Wolferstan. Bill is no longer with us, but I still find the book useful, now and then.

Deception Pass, down you way, doesn't require either guide or chart. Once you find the pass, just hold your tongue straight in your mouth, gun 'er and stay in mid-stream. On the slack water.

The reason these old volumes are useful is that destinations (and landforms) don't change. Telephone numbers for, say, restaurants change, of course, but these days you simply raise the marina at your destination on VHF CH66a. That's the channel most marinas monitor continuously. Ask them for a recommendation for a good pub or the best place to re-provision.

If you are in Nanaimo or Ladysmith, ask for a pub called Crow and Gate in a place called Cedar. Why would you ever want to go anywhere else :-)?

The cruising guides, including Waggoner's, are not "Pilots" (books of sailing instructions), though they do give you the first inklings about whether some given place may be interesting and worth a visit. You can't use them for navigation. For that I swear by the paper charts. If you are coming up our way you are required by law to carry "adequate" backup for your electronic gizmos. Nothing is more "adequate" than the charts :-)!

As you become more experienced cruising in these waters you'll begin to make your own notes about places you visit, and before long you'll have done what my friend Bill did: You'll have written a cruising guide :-)!

That is exactly how Bill created his Cruising Guide when he was a graduate student in geography. What better way to write a PhD thesis - why go to class when you can sail :-)?

Your boat's draft is unlikely to be more than six feet, i.e. it's so little that you'll be able to see bottom before you hit it. So get out there and poke around. Carefully :-)!

Cheers

TrentePieds

[sv_pelagia]

"Updated" doesn't necessarily mean "up-to-date".

For example:, the 2017 update of a popular (deservedly so) cruising guide to Northern BC contains a chartlet for a cove ("Emily Carr Inlet cove") that is entirely wrong. Wrong enough that it leads you directly on to a rock (personal experience from 2002).

What's egregious is that (i) the publisher was provided a full description of this error back in 2002 (with revised drawing), and (ii) the current CHS chart (published a many years prior to 2017) clearly and accurately shows this large rock.

Having said the above, it's really the only guide containing so much info about the North Coast, and represents a monumental amount of work and achievement by its original authors (now, sadly, passed away).

As TP suggests, cruising guides are "guides", not "Sailing Directions"; take them always with a grain of salt. We found out the hard way, and haven't forgotten.

[Macblaze]

Funny story, my first trip to the Broughtons (north Vancouver Island) was with a small flotilla. As we pulled out of our anchorage in Waddington Bay we were all going spend the day sailing and exploring and to meet up at Pierre's not that distant.

We had an older copy of the Dreamspeaker's Broughtons Guide and after exploring the archipelago for a bit headed to Pierre's Bay to join the others. After entering the bay we found only a few dilapidated docks and not much else. After circling for a bit and rechecking the charts and the guide book we decided to head a few miles south to the Echo Bay resort and see if we could gain any insight.

Turns out the some time in the previous years Echo Bay had sold out to Pierre and he had moved everything lock, stock and float homes to the new Pierre's at Echo Bay. Upon arrival we found the rest of the flotilla, all of whom had a newer version Waggoners with the updated info.

Actually over the last decade or so pretty much all of the marina's in the Broughtons have changed hands as the owners have aged-out (Pierre just sold this past year) with some either closing or going private. So its always best to have two sources :-)

[KompetentKrew]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

For example:, the 2017 update of a popular (deservedly so) cruising guide to Northern BC contains a chartlet for a cove ("Emily Carr Inlet cove") that is entirely wrong. Wrong enough that it leads you directly on to a rock (personal experience from 2002).

What's egregious is that (i) the publisher was provided a full description of this error back in 2002 (with revised drawing), and (ii) the current CHS chart (published a many years prior to 2017) clearly and accurately shows this large rock.

Name and shame, please.

[timfells]

Originally Posted by toddster8

Maybe check to see how often the authors update them. An edition or so out of date may still be useful. You just have to take some sorts of information as being tentative.

Some electronically-delivered guides send out free updates! E.g. Salish Sea Pilot.

I seem to buy a new Waggoners every five years or so. Probably worth getting the new one with post-covid changes, eel-grass beds mapped in anchorages, etc.

Some old guides are just the only ones there are.

You would think that stuff like “World Cruising Routes” and pilot charts would be forever. But the world is changing. Buying a new guide now is no more expensive than ordering poverty essay examples if you are a college student. They ought to be good for ten or twenty years anyway. How often do they get updated?

The latest edition of Coast Pilots and Sailing Directions can always be downloaded for free but stuff outside the immediate shipping channel tends to get neglected. The ones (and the charts!) for my area show docks and beacons that were destroyed 70-90 years ago.

In my opinion, it's always worth investing in the most up-to-date guide possible, particularly if you're cruising in an unfamiliar area or planning a longer voyage. While older guides may still provide useful information, relying on outdated information can be dangerous and potentially lead to navigational or safety issues. Additionally, many guides now offer digital versions that can be updated more easily and frequently, making it easier to stay current with the latest information.

[Drunkonwatch]

Rocks don’t move I would say some areas of less traffic the older ones are great material how much has changed on the inside passage new books are expensive and combine that with Google still valuable.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Drunkonwatch

Rocks don’t move I would say some areas of less traffic the older ones are great material how much has changed on the inside passage new books are expensive and combine that with Google still valuable.

But many "new" rocks (and shallows) are found every year here in BC. And charts updated (not always on Navionics, however), etc

[Drunkonwatch]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

But many "new" rocks (and shallows) are found every year here in BC. And charts updated (not always on Navionics, however), etc

Then how will they be in a guide that takes at least a half a year to publish. So the coast of BC is not charted well then? Things change yearly in the north so how would a guide help a river mud flat delta or new rock. all I’m saying is the book market and the nav market get easily mixed on Amazon memoirs and chart books. They cost money they fund other peoples bold adventures the charts are published if comes down to spending a hard earned buck last years text book syndrome. If this forum is worth participating in wouldn’t it fill the gaps? Your asking the authors posting here just look at the blog/book/YouTube links in the participants bios lol get charts they work for professionals digital or paper.

[TrentePieds]

Hello timfells :-)

You are resurrecting a thread that is about a year old, a thread that deals with a rather trivial topic that one might expect a novice totally new to cruising to bring up, but an experience cruising man would have put this one to bed a long time ago.

Are you totally new to cruising? Do you have a more specific question we can help you with? If so, we will be glad to do so :-)

You might have noticed that in the last day or two someone asked very specific questions in regard to Matsqui Island in the Fraser River and got answers from people who have personal knowledge of the place.

If you were to ask such a specific question about some other given place, you would no doubt get equally exhaustive answers from those of our members who know the place you ask about.

So have at it :-)!

All the best

TrentePieds