A 'No-win' Situation

[Target9000]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

"that's like putting a gold toilet in the backseat of a Chevy Nova." Have you nseen the price of a good Nova these days? :>)

Its probably been done in a rap video somewhere.

[Double Z]

Is she this one? 1989 Catalina Tall Rig Wing Keel Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[witzgall]

Don't pay more for fresh water vs. salt. That is a myth. The fresh water boat might sell faster, but that is it.

Chris

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by Nomad57

The boat in question has a 'recent' survey, which the seller will allow me to view if I make an offer. I was considering, depending on how long ago the survey was done, of relying on that survey, rather than having another one done.

The only reason I am considering this is that the selling broker is the same one who sold our boat, in my estimation a reasonably honest man, as brokers go. He has revealed to me the shortcomings of the boat, and what needs to be repaired, with an estimate of cost as per his consultation with the fiberglass man at our yard. The usual Cat 30 issues of compression post damage and one stantion base repair.

Is this a reasonable approach?

Nomad

You're kidding!
This guy isn't a serious seller, he's an out of touch wanker.
If he won't let you see the survey he's got something to hide.
If he is so unreasonable now, imagine trying to negotiate through the sale!

And by the way, the time has NEVER past for a low ball offer. Just the strike rate changes a bit.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

You're kidding!
This guy isn't a serious seller, he's an out of touch wanker.
If he won't let you see the survey he's got something to hide.
If he is so unreasonable now, imagine trying to negotiate through the sale!

And by the way, the time has NEVER past for a low ball offer. Just the strike rate changes a bit.

I agree. If your broker knows you are serious and it sounds like he does, then he should be able to get his hands on the survey. If the seller won't cough it up then walk away. I understand that the seller doesn't to want to hand it out to everyone that makes an inquiry but you shouldn't have to put up a deposit to see it.

[zeehag]

sorry but a broker is not interested in short selling -- he NEEDS his commission. look for a decent whatever without a broker and live large.

[davefromoregon]

Originally Posted by zeehag

in this market why would a catalina 30 be 32k????/ curious......

On Yachtworld, there are lots of them at 30k and above right now. I didn't work hard enough to see how many were below that, but there were at least two full pages at 29,999+.

[zeehag]

at 30k, the broker gets 10 percent, but at 10,500, where a catalina should be, they dont get much at all, unless charging 3k for the hell of it, which they often do. they dont like selling under 30k
they also dislike showing boats on moorings.

[callmecrazy]

If you look at craigslist (here), the Catalina 30's are separated by decade. The 70's boats are 10-15k and the (mid)80's boats are 20-30k.

On yachtworld it's pretty much the same, except the lowest you will see is riht around $10k... There's a lot of 70's catalina 30's listed well over $15k (because brokers suck) but I counted at least 20 listed between 10-15k.

Apparently nobody told the market that age doesn't really matter on boats... an 80's boat for 30k could need more work than a 70's boats for 10k... It all depens on what the previous owners did with it. But clearly the trend is to simply list a newer boat for a higher price and see who's biting...

(edit) it's not that brokers won't list lower priced boats, they just won't do any work towards trying to sell them. If they do any work at all, it'll be for the higher priced boats. And quite often they'll use the low-priced boats for a classic bait-n-switch maneuver once they get you in the door.

[zeehag]

if ye dont mind sunbleach, ther eare many many many of those boaTS LESS THAN 10K--LOOK IN SIN DIEGO AND othr places with overpopulated marinas.

[Pblais]

I looked on Yachtworld for the boat, and it just happened to be listed with a broker I've dealt with and am comfortable with.

20% of all brokers sell 80% of all the boats sold. A good broker is like any good professional. They have to be good to close that many deals. They close deals by helping the two sides meet in the middle. If you know a good broker that sells a lot of boats then they will give good advice. Boat brokers are a lot like realtors. Most of them don't work hard but the good ones work very hard to sell most of the ones that are for sale.

There are no rules of thumb based on asking prices. The best advice is compare any price to something else you could actually buy. If you could get a better boat for a better price then you are wasting your time looking at another. Go with a deal you know not some concept that you can always ask 1/3 of asking price. It's a lot of BS that has been floating around so long that people think it's true. You are out to buy just one boat not all of them for sale.

The real deal is to know what something else can be had for rather than assuming you can always offer less. You might get it for less but don't start out insulting a seller. You need to check out every boat so you can know what it is worth. Nothing wrong with offering a fair price once you really know. Nothing wrong with offering a lower price once the seller knows you really know either. Sellers are not totally stupid but they sure can think you are. You'll be a seller one day too.

[Nomad57]

Originally Posted by Double Z

Is she this one? 1989 Catalina Tall Rig Wing Keel Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

No, that's not the one. I did call the broker on this boat, and he admitted it is not in very good shape.

The one we had looked at is:

1988 Catalina 30 Mark II Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Nomad

[Nomad57]

I thought this thread had died when larryb suggested that I "drop this particular cat".

Our purchase plans are on hold right now. As per Vasco's valuable suggestion that we check out yacht club bulletin boards and walk the docks to see what is for sail, we did just that and were invited aboard a boat for evening races.

I found my reintroduction (after an absence of about 9 years) to be more difficult than I had remembered. While I had thought that the difficulty would be winching in the head sail, I discovered that my difficulty was handling the main. If it's this hard to pull in the main sheet on a 30, I have to wonder what a 36 would be like.

We'll be doing more of this until we know whether or not it's going to be viable for us. We've also reconsidered whether a Cat 30 is going to be the right boat for us.

Our intention had been to start with a 30 as a 'starter boat', (I had started a thread on that, as well) but this may not be the way to go. Maybe I ought to have just one thread going, rather than all the ones I've started. "Our search for a boat" might have been more all-encompassing, but there were many different issues that came to mind, so I started threads as each idea popped into my head. That'll learn me.

Nomad

[callmecrazy]

If the mainsheet was that heavy for you, it probably needed more purchase. You can add a block or pulley to any size main sheet to take the 'weight' off when you're pulling in the sheet. You shouldn't ever need a winch on a mainsheet (on a smaller cruising boat) and you should be able to pull it in in any conditions.

So it's not that a 30 footer's main is too heavy to sheet it, it's just not setup to be easy enough for you're taste. It's fixable.

Also keep in mind that those beercan races can get pretty competative and you'll be sailing in a manner that you normally won't if you're just cruising around. The sails were possibly a bit overpowered...

But you're being smart to keep getting experience so you can choose a boat based on that instead of opinions. I'm sure you'll something that will fit you perfectly. Good luck.

[Nomad57]

Thank for that. I was beginning to wonder if this was going to be for us. I did notice that the boat (a Hunter 30), had a different arrangement than I had seen before. Some boats that I've seen have the main set up with three attachment points on the bottom of the boom, this one had only one attachment point on the boom, with parallel pulleys through which the sheet passed.

The difficulty I encountered was that it was necessary to pull the sheet to release it from the cam cleat, but we were beating to windward, and the sheet was already in about as tight as it could be. A stronger fellow than I was able to release it.

If it were me alone, I might have moved the traveler a little closer to windward, and had a little less tightness on the sheet, but then I'm not a racer. Not an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Regards,

Nomad