Aspiring Cruiser Seeks Input on his "Plan"

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by toms-gonesailin

...Would be great to hear from other people about how they've approached identifying their first boat...

I did not select a manufacturer and model, or even a list of these, to go look for.

Instead I used the resources like you mention (and more importantly, my own experience) to identify the characteristics I wanted in boat. Then I considered any and all boats I encountered in my price range for how well the matched my criteria. This opens you up to a lot more boats, and you can select one based on condition, equipment, price, and what makes your heart sing.

In my case I wanted a performance boat with a lot of room. I bought an older race boat (Serendipity 43). It took some upgrading to be suitable for cruising. This was 33 years ago, 55,000 ocean miles and countless races, a circumnavigation, and we've never looked back.

PS, it was not my first boat, but my 5th, and second sailboat. I selected the first the same way.

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by wingssail

There is NOTHING wrong with a moderate displacement vessel. Heavy displacement buys you nothing offshore, even in heavy weather, in my opinion. Lively is good, better then plunging into every second wave. If your displ/len is over 180, that is not too light.

About your plan:

• I think your refit budget is too low. You are looking at a inexpensive boat and only $20k refit budget, I think you'll double that, at least.
• You two need more non-structured sailing experience to better prepare you for this cruising life. So, while refitting, don't take the boat out of service. Keep it, if at all possible, in sailing trim, sail it every week, in whatever conditions you have that day. This is the best insurance that your cruising will be as you expect it, not a sad shock. Classes don't count.

Thanks for the perspective on displacement. It helps for sure. I think as a 'wannabe' we often get caught up in design ratios. Again lack of experience but a solid pov.

Also thanks for the advice on the refit and the necessary experience. Definitely won't begin any major refit projects outside of essential systems that need repair before we've had a chance to really spend sometime getting to know her.

[toms-gonesailin]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I did not select a manufacturer and model, or even a list of these, to go look for.

Instead I used the resources like you mention (and more importantly, my own experience) to identify the characteristics I wanted in boat. Then I considered any and all boats I encountered in my price range for how well the matched my criteria. This opens you up to a lot more boats, and you can select one based on condition, equipment, price, and what makes your heart sing.

In my case I wanted a performance boat with a lot of room. I bought an older race boat (Serendipity 43). It took some upgrading to be suitable for cruising. This was 33 years ago, 55,000 ocean miles and countless races, a circumnavigation, and we've never looked back.

PS, it was not my first boat, but my 5th, and second sailboat. I selected the first the same way.

Thanks that's great to know. How did you account for build quality? A lot of reading I've done talks about boats and yards with reputations for build quality and the importance of selecting a boat that has reputation for being well built.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by toms-gonesailin

Without a lot of experience to rely on, I've primarily used what information i've found available in books, magazines and on the web, spent of hours digging through forums, listings and sailboat data to try put together a profile of a boat that makes sense for me.

I understand.

But consider that you are reading 10+ year old books/articles about boats that were 20 years old at the time. So even at the time those books were written the boats they wrote about were 20 years old. Also consider that that books are written by ....................... writers who boat, not boatbuilders etc. Most may as well just use quote marks to note they are just repeating the line they read somewhere, that was posted by someone, who had heard it from someone else.

Consider this, my "modern" 2001 boat is now 18 years old so it has been around. It has not broken or had any issue at all with hull/rudder so why would I expect it now? It 2 more year it will be "classic". Before this I had a "better" boat that had been built in 1988. Compared to my current 2001 Hunter 410 my 1988 boat was a piece of crap. Yes for it's time it was a nice well built boat, but compared to more modern construction and assembly designed boats it was just crap and impossible to work on compared to my trash talked about Hunter.

Older boats aren't necessarily better, they are just older.

[Stu Jackson]

mw, you might choose to wander through the electrical section of this forum. This question comes up so regularly that many have suggested one or two of the better ones be condensed and made into a sticky. You could search on 110 vs. 220, or 120 vs. 240 or all sorts of voltage comps. Good luck.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Was thinking of some of the logistics of running a disparate system
1. Shore power - how do you plug into a dock?
2. Appliances - if you have EUR 240V in the US and want to plug-in a hot plate, Instant Pot, or power tool? Same in reverse - even if voltage can be stepped-down from 224V to 120V, frequency is not the same.
3. Outlets are all different - UK use large plugs; US use small ones. Small electronics can be easily adapted as they accept both AC inputs and convert to DC.
4. Inverter - if you want an inverter (or replace a broken one), will have to source a 240V/50hz inverter. Tough to do in the US (vice versa if other direction).

I just think there's more to buying a boat in the UK if intended use is US. All have a work-around (Atlas Converter accepts global inputs, but is very expensive).

[barcoo]

Did you read the last sentence of the ad.....She's well balanced and perfect for blue water cursing or racing.

[Cloroxbottle]

Buy the boat in Europe, do the crossing to the Caribbean and then up the coast to the NE...

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by Cloroxbottle

Buy the boat in Europe, do the crossing to the Caribbean and then up the coast to the NE...

Problem may be a 240v boat in a 110v country

[RoseLoper48]

End of summer boats will be coming on the market soon. Wait for the perfect boat for you.

[nofacey]

Just finished 5 yrs world cruise.
- Don’t sweat structured learning to sail....you are ready when you are comfortable.
- Don’t sweat whatever base AC voltage (110 vs 240) the boat comes in.....go online and buy a 5kW step down/up transformer and arrange the plugs to feed your boat. 5kW May seem over size, but they build ‘em light.
You are looking at good boats, they will do well.
- if it has teak decks, walk away, unless you are prepared for Serious, Time Consuming rework. Think a year.
- if you’re going to insure the boat, plan on redoing standing rigging. Think about synthetic vs SS (SS wire quality sucks nowadays)
- if it has cable steering, replace the cables.
- if the mainsail has any patches, buy a new one. They go first.
- ensure you have good self steering or autopilot. Huge difference to workload on passage.
- whatever electronics you have, get transmitting AIS. Thousand percent better than radar.
- Having a watermaker is not a must, but it does make staying on the hook way easier. Plus having FW showers on passage whenever it’s calm feels great. Buy a simple one - you have to maintain it.
Rallies are fun, but anything ARC is expensive.....if you go in traditional weather windows (which usually the most comfortable) you’ll have lots of boat buddies without spending thousands.

Going soon is better than waiting till everything is perfect.....you’ll see lots of ‘cruisers’ stuck at dock....the inertia is huge.

[drcat]

Based on your post, it would seem you have a small set of sailboats you are considering. Both of you have about 400 nm and a few weeks sailing in sailing school, which might sound like a lot but the distance is just 1/4 the way down the US east coastline. Perhaps you should expand your search to include a catamaran.
A few reasons,
easier typical cruiser downwind/reach sailing with less rocking back and forth, See youtube La Vagabonde and Sailing Zatara for reasons they switched from mono to cat plus recent mono vs cat comparisons
flat sailing vs 15 deg angle which can get old fast, and a bit safer
less rolling/rocking at anchor, more space,
room for guests,
usually better ventilation,
better galley and storage space
Sleeping/cooking on top of the water
2 engines (has good -safety and bad - one more engine to maintain aspects)
Yes catamarans can cost more than a mono and haulout/docking can be more expensive. However lower cost catamarans do come on the market. I personally like Privilege 39s - 2 years ago a 1983 sold on Craigslist for $59K in S Florida while 6 months ago another 1983 sold on Ebayfor $85K in Texas. As with most older boats I'm sure they needed some renovation.

[Adiona]

Having spent a considerable time aboard for years, do not, cannot, depend on reliable WiFi at marinas up and down the coast, especially if my source of income depends on it. Some are ok, others intermittent or non existent. And at a mooring, not very likely. We have a router and an internal to our boat secure address for all our devices and the router with incription “talks” to the marinas as we go. The biggest problem we found is that marinas don’t provide enough WiFi to connect in an uninterrupted fashion. We are not newbies to the WiFi world and have had the same skinny WiFi issues on the last couple of boats too. Where we currently are on the Chesapeake, they have a restriction on the number of users that can sign on. When those boats leave that WiFi slot stays tied up till it smashes completely and then they have to call the company to clear their cue. This will happen at the worse time, weekends, nights weekends with a Monday holiday. So it leaves us trying to use our hotspot, which we also found on the east and gulf coats to be poor. We have had At&T, Verizon, Sprint. They all are never full up bars at marinas or at anchor. Be aware that if the internet stands between you and your paycheck, look carefully at what equipment you need aboard to make that be so.

[sdj]

Do it. Just be aware that there will be changes - some of them pushed upon you in a fairly unwelcome fashion. As long as you can not panic and regroup, you'll be fine.

[ikebartlett]

Great planning so far, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland are great sailing grounds, the least expensive and good connectivity. I have an ATT unlimited plan with the Canada plan, didn’t lose signal very often. If you are truly thinking of that climate, search for a boat up there, a lot have wood or diesel heaters installed. They are most likely already set up for that climate.

I received a lot advice before purchasing mine, I believe these were the best bits
1. Purchase the smallest boat you can be comfortable on, major cost consideration for marina visits, refit and on going maintenance
2. You can find two near identical boats, very similar overall condition, one with all the bells and whistles and one almost bare, if used, which your budget indicates, they will sell for around the same price, regardless of the whistles.
3. Purchase a boat that fits your ( you and your partner only) needs for +90% of the time. A lot of people make the mistake of purchasing a much larger vessel so there is room for the friends and family to come for a visit or short trip. Much more cost effective to rent one for those occasions.
4. Properly sized solar panels and battery banks, Radar, AIS, watermaker, small freezer, upsized fuel tanks, Satellite based coms ( such as InReach with text and weather downloads capabilities) and a windvane make for less stress and fewer Marina stops
5. Make your work lists, prioritize them, do the the top of the list, purchase what you won’t be able to readily find and go, work the rest of the list as you travel, by the way, the list will never end, and I mean never.
5a. Do as much of the work as you can, and what you can’t because of specialty knowledge, become the assistant, learn, you need to know your boat intimately.
6. I did receive a lot of advice about no smaller than a 50 footer, for safer, faster, smoother passages, I didn’t, I’m on a 40’, and now looking at windvanes to finalize my first list.
Good luck and welcome to this wonderful lifestyle
Ike
FB. Sailing Florence Clara

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Does anyone have feedback on disparate electrical systems 220v/50hz (much of EUR) vs 120v 60hz (US)? How much hassle is there in buying a EUR boat with 220v but cruising primarily in North America (or vice versa)? Would think conversion would be impractical, even on a relatively small system such as an older 40-foot boat. Thoughts?

My yacht is wierd for 110V, I am using a simple transformer when I am in a country where things are running on 230V . It would get expensive replacing the battery charging and hot water system...anyway its only relevant when in a marina.