Bareboat chartering vs. Buying a cheap boat

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by Not a spy

Just take the weeklong course from San Juan Sailing: https://www.sanjuansailing.com/instr...oat-learn.html
You do ASA 101-104 in one shot and you’ll be in your home cruising grounds. You will learn how to sail and also all about the crazy tides that you encountered in the SJs. Ask for Captain Bob. He will teach you all you need to know.

I was going to make the same recommendation...

[letsgetsailing3]

A boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money.

No exceptions. You can do it big, or you can do it little.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by GoodShipLolipop

Shifting tracks here for a sec, I have some general questions about ASA certifications. Specifically, which ones are the most important?

It seems pretty obvious that I need ASA 101, 103 and 104 pretty much immediately. 105 also looks like a good idea, though I could maybe learn the same thing from free resources online? 106 and 108 look like they're a very good idea, but I don't necessarily need them immediately....

I think taking classes is a great idea. I wish ASA had been available before I started sailing with my dad. We got 'er done but we learned so much in the ASA classes that I wish I had known back in the day.

The classes are to jump start learning to sail and the real learning happens when you are off by yourself.

We did a live aboard class for 101/103 that was six days long, if I remember right, and we wish we had had one or two more days. You have to learn to tie some knots, do the on water training and the paper test. We worked our a...ss off during the class, it was fun, but we worked hard to do well on the tests. To make the class easier, one can get the books before class to start studying and learning the knots.

The 104 class was about the right amount of time.

We have been trying to complete the 105 class for almost two years now. We got the materials sent to us by our instructor one November and figured we would study of the holidays and then take the test. We did some studying but then life got in the way, including a pandemic, and that was that. We thought last holiday season we would get it done, but nope, life got in the way again. We had hoped to go on a week long trip in the keys and get the test done early this winter, but that plan did not work either.

We would like to take the other ASA classes at some point as well but 101, 103, 104 and 105, are the big ones for us.

We have talked about buying a boat for years and we would likely have one if my wife had her way. Yes, you heard that right, but I always kill the idea. Buying a boat right now is a waste of money and makes no money sense for us. To get to the boat would take a few hours, and we simply do not have the money to berth the boat, much less maintain it or buy it. Worse than that, we have NO time. See up above having trouble finishing the 105 class. We just rent a boat when we can squeeze in some time.

I would suggest taking the classes ASAP, then get a boat, and make danged sure you will have the time to use a boat.

Later,
Dan

[Happ]

Originally Posted by GoodShipLolipop

The cost to store and maintain the boat was something I'd already considered. Assuming $3k a week to charter brings us up to something close to $15k to get a boat for a month. Or if these $10k-ish boats were worth looking at, plus a similar amount to maintain it for a year, then that's an increase in cost of about 33% to get 1200% of the time with the boat. And if I could expect to sell that boat after a while to recoup most of the initial purchase price, then even better.



The numbers were close enough that I figured it was time to ask people who knew more than I did. And thanks again everyone for the advice. I'll look into clubs and boat shares, seems like a much better fit for the kind of sailing I want to get started with.

There is an old saying in boats. “A boat is a hole in he water in which you pour money.” The chances of selling a boat for what you paid for it and your upgrades is small, very small.

[hvkelley]

I have firsthand experience with what you are considering in PNW. After chartering with a captain three times in the Virgin Islands, I decided I wanted to REALLY learn how to sail. In 2007, I contacted San Juan Sailing (SJS) in Bellingham to schedule a week-long live-aboard ASA sailing school that provided ASA 101, 103, and 104 which qualified me to charter boats from sailing charter companies. From 2007 to 2016, I chartered through SJS every season for at least 2-3 weeks and gained knowledge of at least 15 different monohull sailboats. Along the way, I took the advanced ASA 105 & 106 and International classes through SJS, chartered again (bareboat, this time) in the Virgin Islands, and completed a blue water sail as crew from Norfolk to Tortola, BVI. Then in 2017, I purchased my own boat, a new 37' Bavaria, in Vancouver and put it into the SJS fleet that year for my use and for charter thru 2019. Unfortunately, my wife's health necessitated selling that boat in late 2019 (Amazing Grace is still in the SJS fleet), and I am chartering infrequently once again. I HIGHLY recommend this approach and SJS to you (no, I am not an owner of SJS!).

[MicHughV]

boat = b.o.a.t. = Bring On Another Thousand

[pma_foyl]

I don’t think you’ll find a charter company eager to let a novice single-hand a boat for a month… and they shouldn’t (and you shouldn’t want to). It’s a very strange approach.

Buying a boat is an option, but you’re really flying blind. I’d recommend getting some valuable experience by joining a boat club. You’ll get to sail a variety of boats and both “learn how to sail” while getting an idea of “which boat(s) might suit you.” Plus they are markedly cheaper than buying/owning.

Seattle Sailing (Shilshole) is a great club with a good fleet and fair membership costs. When you’re ready to charter (and you currently are not), check out San Juan Sailing in Bellingham. Great outfit, awesome fleet, very reasonable prices.

[pma_foyl]

One other thought regarding buying a “starter boat” and the associated costs. “Buying” the boat is BY FAR the cheapest part of the equation. It will cost money/time to maintain anything you get. And your calculations are missing tons of things.

And remember this: if you spend $10k on a boat (that is worth $10k) and you put in $5k of upgrades or maintenance…. The boat is still worth only $10k. If you put in $20k or $30k of upgrades…. The boat is still worth $10k.

While upgrades might make your boat more sellable later, they will NOT increase its monetary value at all.

[KellyMarcena]

Yes! Buy your own!

I started at a 14' daysailer and a few seasons later upgraded to a Pearson 26. Fantastic boat to make lots of mistakes on AND it gave me the chance to really learn about the boat itself and how to care for it...can't really compare what I gained from a summer of camping out to chartering someone else's boat for a week. (Which I did, as well.) A few years later upgraded again to a Pearson 10M.

Owning your own gets you IN to the lifestyle - caring, maintenance, docking, handling, weather, politics, ALL of it. No comparison to chartering for a week.
Best!

[CaribbeesYC]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

Some of the guys I have taken ASA courses with belong to a time membership called "Sailtime".

https://sailtime.com

Costs are about $800 per month, which if you count owning -a-boat (like me) costs like marina fees + insurance + towing insurance + MAINTENANCE /REPAIRS, is not that bad.

Plus you get to sail bigger, nicer boats.

I would second this recommendation. DM if you need more info, as I work with SailTime extensively.

[smacksman]

Wow! What company bareboat charters to someone who's never sailed before. Bit like renting a car to a learner driver. The insurance must be horrendous. I've cruised thousands of miles in a 27 foot sailboat. Plenty big enough for one or two crew.

[desodave]

I don't think anyone in their right mind is going to charter a boat to someone with no experience and no sailing knowledge. You can charter a cruise and learn (pay for a skipper as well), and come out of it with credit for a basic course. But that will be expensive and sounds like more than you want to pay.
One of our members - Boatpoker - is a surveyor and you should have a look at his site;
http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/
His Marine Survey 101 is a great guide to evaluating boats ideally before you put money down on hiring a surveyor. Might help you a lot in looking at them with an eye to purchase.

[SeaRags]

If you take the ASA courses you will likely meet people that might share the same goals as well as sharing the cost of a cheap learning boat. Buy a boat with the agreement that you will sell the boat within a couple years, or they can buy you out. If you are just learning it might be good to have a second person to bounce ideas off of and to assist with various skills training.

[WPotter1950]

I'm going out on a limb here to give you my experience from sailing in Greek waters. A bareboard charter would be good for a week or two - but prohibitively expensive for a season. Charter boats tend to be newish and well maintained. Charters tend to want at least a skipper and an experienced crew on board. So not good for single-handing. You will have to pay harbour fees but no over-winter layup fees.

A cheap second hand boat, which is actually what I think you need, will be old(ish) and less well maintained and susceptible to breakdowns. You will soon learn the old adage about a boat actually being a hole in the ocean that you pour money into. You will have to pay harbour fees and over-winter layup fees. But you will be free and you will have lots of fun and, who knows, you may be capable of carrying out much of the maintenance yourself.


Good luck with your (ad)venture.

[GoodShipLolipop]

Because a lot of the comments seem to be going over the same ground again and again, I figure I should repeat some stuff from earlier in the thread so the people who don't start from the beginning are up to speed. I genuinely don't mean this as a criticism, expecting people to read multiple pages of comments is a bit much, and there's no harm at all in repeating correct advice.

But just so we're all on the same page, yes, I know boats are expensive. And yes, I considered maintenance and upgrades. My total budget is around $220k, I'm just pinching pennies because any money spent on acquiring this initial experience is money that can't be spent cruising in my forever boat.


This isn't "oh my god that guy has no idea what this really costs". It's "that guy is tightening the purse strings early because he DOES know what this really costs."