Bareboat chartering vs. Buying a cheap boat

[GoodShipLolipop]

I'd like to get some experience sailing on my own before committing to buying a boat, and was thinking I would do a bareboat charter. The idea was to spend a month or so this summer cruising Puget Sound and the San Juan islands, learning to run the boat and catching some fish/crabs. But after spending a while digging around, it's looking like all the charter companies are targeting the "fancy vacation" crowd, which costs a bit more than I'd like to pay for the time I'd like to have the boat.

So my question is two-fold. First, does anyone have any recommendations for a company that does cheap-ish longer term charters in the PNW? I'm not looking for anything fancy, just something that can be safely single-handed by a complete novice. I have no sailing-specific experience, will be taking classes before I do any of this (I'm open to advice on that, too).

Second, would it be a better idea to just buy a cheap (<$10k) sailboat, with the intent to sell it relatively soon (within a year or two) for an upgrade? I see a few boats in my area on YachtWorld that look okay in that price range, but I really have no idea if those boats are ready to sail or not, and I absolutely don't want to buy a boat that I can't immediately start sailing. I know I'll need a proper inspection on any boat I want to buy, but if these cheap 70s and 80s era boats are just money pits, then I'd rather know now before I spend a bunch of time and money looking for a good one.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

[Macblaze]

I don't think you are going to find what you want. Charter boats in PNW are cheaper than other places but they still run $3000+ a week. And there aren't a lot of smaller or private charterers left that don't come with a captain.

And a boat<$10,000 isn't really going to be suitable for living aboard unless you sink some money into it. I suppose you could get a trailer sailor and truck it around... that might get you a pretty well-equipped boat albeit small, and you could use it for shorter stints. And you never know, you might luck out...but I wouldn't count on it as the market is still pretty hot cause of Covid etc.

We priced it 6 ways from Sunday and decided to buy a boat and sell it after our year of living aboard. It was a big investment but the plan was to get most of our money out of it and still not have to pay the "outrageous" charter fees. In the end we ended up keeping the boat and now have it in charter ourselves when we aren't sailing it.

Good luck

[GoodShipLolipop]

That's kind of what I expected, thanks. I'll keep my eyes open to see if a deal pops up, but think I might just need to increase the budget here by more than a tad.

[KompetentKrew]

I recommend doing a mile-builder with someone like www.johnkretschmersailing.com or www.sailracingacademy.org. Check out the minimum experience requirements for those trips first though.

I'm aware of 3 British clubs that operate large keelboats (35'+) on non-profit / cooperative basis - see if there's anything like that near you.

I went for a 40' sailboat as my first yacht, because I knew that if I started with something smaller I'd soon want to upgrade. I made so many mistakes that I would probably would have been cheaper to buy a smaller boat, and it turns out I didn't yet spend all the money I imagined on new electronics and other electronics - I managed just fine without AIS.

[Jaqun]

Allot of Yacht clubs have Club Boat programs (the two clubs I'm affiliated with on the east caoast both do) where the club owns boats you can borrow and sail. Check around. Might be a good option.

[DMCantor]

If you buy a boat, the marina/mooring costs are not any different between a cheap and an expensive boat. Maintenance costs are likely to be higher with a cheap boat, maybe a lot higher. It would be very easy to spend $10,000 a year on these costs, and more if you aren't extremely disciplined in avoiding the temptation to add new gear.


I second the motion for looking into one of the time-share companies. It might be as expensive as a week's charter, but you'll get a lot more than a week of sailing time.

[GoodShipLolipop]

The cost to store and maintain the boat was something I'd already considered. Assuming $3k a week to charter brings us up to something close to $15k to get a boat for a month. Or if these $10k-ish boats were worth looking at, plus a similar amount to maintain it for a year, then that's an increase in cost of about 33% to get 1200% of the time with the boat. And if I could expect to sell that boat after a while to recoup most of the initial purchase price, then even better.



The numbers were close enough that I figured it was time to ask people who knew more than I did. And thanks again everyone for the advice. I'll look into clubs and boat shares, seems like a much better fit for the kind of sailing I want to get started with.

[Kd9truck]

So, no such thing as a cheap boat unless you neglect it, especially now. The Charters are super pricey everywhere regardless of the condition of the vessel they rent you. I would opt for charter learning like the ASA courses, get friends into in and you might get a discount.
If you only chartered and never owned your own vessel it would be cheaper but you would sail less.
I own a 44ft vessel, I take pride in it, i in most cases swap out components before they fail and I try to hit obsolescence dates. I am in the north east it coasts about 10k a year all in (storage, maintenance, upgrades, fuel, “consumables”). I sail on average 3-4 days a week from April to November, I waited to retire before owning, boat take time and money, I fix almost everything to keep costs down and to learn.
I hope this is helpful
Cheers

[jen1722terry]

Are there any sailing clubs near you? I sailed in one for years back in the 1980s. They own nothing but pool funds to charter bareboats. The club had its own experienced skipper and they'll be glad to teach you how to handle a variety of boats safely.

I'm suggesting this for buying a live-aboard-size boat with little experience could lead to dissappointment or accidents. Cheap boats are cheap for a reason and unless you have maintenance experience the boat and engine can have a considerable learning curve.

Good luck. Live the dream.

[Rumrace]

With so many lovely boats which never get taken out it’s a question Impossible to answer.
In Toronto you can lease time share on a boat starting with lessons. They have 4 boats now I think. 38’ to 41’
Sailing with an experienced captain on something you’d like to own has many pros.
You decide what options you must have. What sail inventory suit your area.
May save you from buying something you can’t stand. I’ve met some of their graduates now boat owners.
I am sure your market has something similar if not affiliated. They gobble up Beneteau and Jeanneau and bareboat them some destinations but do time share elsewhere. They added a Dufour so a single rudder to check out.

[sinnerman]

Some of the guys I have taken ASA courses with belong to a time membership called "Sailtime".

https://sailtime.com

Costs are about $800 per month, which if you count owning -a-boat (like me) costs like marina fees + insurance + towing insurance + MAINTENANCE /REPAIRS, is not that bad.

Plus you get to sail bigger, nicer boats.

[Jim Cate]

I'm suggesting this for buying a live-aboard-size boat with little experience could lead to dissappointment or accidents. Cheap boats are cheap for a reason and unless you have maintenance experience the boat and engine can have a considerable learning curve.

True, but one must mount the learning curve at some point. And one misses out on so much of the real knowledge base if you sail club or share scheme boats. Yes, you do get the sailing experience and build th ose skills, but they are only a part of the cruising life style that is the end goal (if I understand your plan correctly). And boats in the 26-30 foot range go for the kind of price you envision and are more than adequate for your purpose.

So, I come down on the "learner boat" side of the argument. It can be done pretty inexpensively IF you resist the urge to upgrade your learner. Y ou are not planning to do long and arduous passages in your training vessel and you don't need fancy electronics or racing quality sails. Actually, in some cases doing normal maintenance and some extra cleaning and decluttering will enable you to sell for little or no loss a year or two down the log.

Good luck with your plan, however you decide to accomplish it. It's a good life out here!

Jim

[Puget Dan]

We live in Seattle and started with a 25’ trailerable boat to learn the ropes. We also joined the Seattle Power Squadron (about $100 a year) and took lots of classes including sailing. After 10 years we sold the 25’ and bought a 38’ 1998 Horstman Trimaran we keep in Anacortes next to the San Juan’s. Looking forward to doing the inside passage next year. Good luck.

[GoodShipLolipop]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

True, but one must mount the learning curve at some point. And one misses out on so much of the real knowledge base if you sail club or share scheme boats. Yes, you do get the sailing experience and build th ose skills, but they are only a part of the cruising life style that is the end goal (if I understand your plan correctly). And boats in the 26-30 foot range go for the kind of price you envision and are more than adequate for your purpose.

So, I come down on the "learner boat" side of the argument. It can be done pretty inexpensively IF you resist the urge to upgrade your learner. Y ou are not planning to do long and arduous passages in your training vessel and you don't need fancy electronics or racing quality sails. Actually, in some cases doing normal maintenance and some extra cleaning and decluttering will enable you to sell for little or no loss a year or two down the log.

Good luck with your plan, however you decide to accomplish it. It's a good life out here!

Jim

I guess I should be clear about what my goals are, and my budget as well.


Right now I'm tied down by a couple of major life events (divorce, dying dog) so the earliest I'd be doing any of this is late June. But ultimately, the goal is to transition to fulltime cruising sometime in the next couple years, starting in the caribbean and eventually moving to the south pacific once I have the necessary experience. What I'm looking to do right now is to start gaining the necessary experience and skills as economically as possible, since every dollar spent getting this experience is a dollar I can't spend on my "forever boat." Plus I'm pretty unlikely to sail back up to Puget Sound after starting my journey in the caribbean, so it would be nice to get out there at least a little bit before I leave for good.


As for budget, after the divorce I'll have around $200k left in my portfolio, plus a car worth around $20k that'll have to be sold when I start cruising for real. I figure if I can spend less than $100k on getting the skills and forever boat, then I should be set for cruising quite a while on investment income plus any remote contract work I do (software engineering), and should be able to afford the big ticket emergency repairs when they come up. Not going to be taking any loans out for this, if I can't afford to pay cash then I can't afford it.



I really don't have much maintenance experience. I'm a reasonably handy guy, amateur machinist and have even built a robot or two from my own designs, but I've never done any major maintenance on any kind of internal combustion engine. I do my own work on my car so long as it doesn't require tools I don't have, but even still the most involved it's ever gotten was replacing the starter motor. Never worked with fiberglass before. But my general attitude is that pretty much anything can be learned, given the time and resources.


Again, thanks everyone for the advice. Lots to think about, and lots of time to think about it.

[Jammer]

I have spent the last four years sailing smaller boats that I bought.


In round numbers I have spent $4000 a year on slips and basic maintenance. I have averaged 20 days a year on the water.



Beyond that, while my latest boat is still for sale, I overall anticipate I will get the rest of my money back.


I have learned far more and had far more enjoyment out of my sailing life than I believe I would have chartering, and have spent less money doing it.