Big $$$ Repairs - Tough Choices

[imagine2frolic]

drew

Good point...... I did purchase an Atomic for $1k on craigs list that ran well......i2f

[Vasco]

Put a 4 stroke outboard on her, sail to Charleston and fix the A4 when you have the time.

[TaoJones]

I'm sure you've already done this, Alexei, but for others who may not be aware, there are currently 18 Sabre 28s on YachtWorld, ranging in age from '72 to '82 and in price from $6000 ('73) to $23,500 ('78). The average price for the three '74s is $13,300. I didn't read the full specs on any of the listings so the above is just a sketch of the current asking prices for brokered Sabre 28s.

Sixteen of the eighteen are east coast boats, so you are facing quite a bit of competition. Of the two midwestern Sabres, the one in Michigan is a '76, while the one in Chicago is also a '74.

With your highly structured schedule, it's hard to see how you could do anything but list the vessel through a broker, especially given that you won't even be in the same location as your boat.

My hope is that some understanding member here will come forward to help you solve this dilemma. Your service to this country deserves to be rewarded by a little human kindness, at the very least. Perhaps one of the earlier posters with engine expertise and easy access to your location can assist you.

I'm sorry for your best-laid plans going so far off the tracks, Alexei, and I hope this doesn't put you off sailing for good.

TaoJones

[SabreKai]

Unless you really love this boat, I'd say putting a new or used diesel in it will cost more than you will recover. So, rebuild the A4. Do as much of the work your self as you can, and farm out the rest. Third option is to put an outboard on the transom. Most cost effective would probably be the outboard if you go with a used one.

One thing, if you do love this boat and want to put in a diesel, I'd suggest looking at Nanni Diesels. These are Toyota-Kubotas and very reasonably priced. I was looking at their 30 hp version for Sabre Dance and they wanted a bit over $8400 CAD at the Toronto boat show last January.

--

Sabre

[Alexei]

Sabre - Yeah I actually got a price quote to replace my engine with a 22hp Kubota. It'd end up being about $13k total, assuming that I'd have to change out the shaft and prop. That's pretty steep. Of course, the quote I've gotten to change out the A-4 came to a total of $8900. Not quite as steep, but still painful. My wife forwarded me some sailboats for sail on craigslist in Charleston for not ridiculously more money than that and they're both larger than Icefire. That makes it hard to justify spending so much cash on this repair, especially since I'd have to take out a loan. Of course, I do like Icefire a lot, but it's never been my intention to keep her forever and ever. The Admiral and I both want to move up (she demands a catamaran, and I concur with her opinion on this one.....we LOVE the Seawind 1160.....someday ).

Tao - Chief Engineer is putting together a quote to compete for the A-4 work, so yes some of the guys and gals on here are helping. But my comments above apply...... I mean shoot, there's a Hunter 34 in Charleston that's been on the market for at least 9 months (asking $24.9k) and I'm sure I can talk the owners down a bit. And there are plenty of other good deals out there..... let's say I get $5 to 7k for Icefire. If I took that and got the same loan I'd need to do the engine changeout, I could be in pretty darn good shape to upgrade. Regardless, don't worry about my giving up on sailing. Both I and my Admiral really like it, and I'm not one to quit just because I've had a little setback. Remember in Rocky Balboa when he goes off on his son for being a wimp and tells him about how it's really about how hard you can get hit and keep on going? I kindof buy into that notion. So if we end up taking a couple years off due to lack of boat, no worries. Shoot, we probably wouldn't be sailing that much in the next few years (as a couple anyway) until the kids are big enough that she'll be able to do more than fret over them onboard. Worst case, I'll just be a keyboard sailor for a while.

So anyway, I'm done in Annpolis. I don't have enough leave time on this stint to get her down the ICW even if she were ready to leave tomorrow. So, I've signed up for monthly dockage at a marina here, and I'm heading home to Charleston tomorrow.

I'll take the next few weeks to decide what to do. I placed an add in Charleston craigslist tonight, asking $10k or best offer (I don't really expect $10k, but 7 or 8 would be nice). My Dad lives in Annapolis, so he can run interference for me with any takers. If I get some nibbles, we'll see what happens. If not, we'll continue to evaluate financing repairs.

Thanks for all your input, folks. I'll let you know what happens.


RUN AND HIDE, ICW! YOU MAY HAVE WON THIS BATTLE, BUT I SHALL DEFEAT YOU IN THE END!!!!!





-Alexei

[imagine2frolic]

RUN AND HIDE, ICW! YOU MAY HAVE WON THIS BATTLE, BUT I SHALL DEFEAT YOU IN THE END!!!!!

I like that attitude. Do not forget looking for used Atomics, and maybe a wee bit of help from some local sailors. It's max a 4 hour job out, and in total. If the boat was here this Sunday we would be putting it in the back of a truck......BEST WISHES in beating the ICW, and all advisaries......i2f

[Jim Cate]

G'day Alexei,

Just got into this thread, and would like to pass on some personal experience with a very similar set of symptoms.

Years ago I owned a Yankee-30 (a dearly loved boat) which had the then common Anemic-4 in her. We developed some pinholes in a brazed-up water lift system that Yankee had put in, with the result that small amounts of salt water would get down the exhaust manifold. We too had sticking valves in #'s 3 and 4 as a result. Being financially embarassed at the time, no rebuild was likely, so I would remove the spark plugs and shove an allen wrench -- about 1/4 inch as I recall -- through the plug hole so that the short end of the wrench would lie on the top of the sticking valve. Then a few raps with a small hammer on the other end of the wrench would jar the valve loose. Repeated as required on all the stuck valves, and all would be well until the next time we left the boat for more than a few days.

Not an elegant solution, but it worked for us until I finally built a new water-lift. Engine then ran fine until I sold her several years and several hundred engine hours later.

As mentioned above, the valve springs are pretty weak when new, and worse when old, so it doesn't take major crud to hang them up.

And finally, I would also rate the "techs" as predatory bastards. Avoid them and their families!

Cheers, and good luck with it

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Manly, Qld Oz

[nonam]

Oh,man!If you had gotten the above message first off you still could have beaten the ICW!

[sww914]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'day Alexei,

Just got into this thread, and would like to pass on some personal experience with a very similar set of symptoms.

Years ago I owned a Yankee-30 (a dearly loved boat) which had the then common Anemic-4 in her. We developed some pinholes in a brazed-up water lift system that Yankee had put in, with the result that small amounts of salt water would get down the exhaust manifold. We too had sticking valves in #'s 3 and 4 as a result. Being financially embarassed at the time, no rebuild was likely, so I would remove the spark plugs and shove an allen wrench -- about 1/4 inch as I recall -- through the plug hole so that the short end of the wrench would lie on the top of the sticking valve. Then a few raps with a small hammer on the other end of the wrench would jar the valve loose. Repeated as required on all the stuck valves, and all would be well until the next time we left the boat for more than a few days.

Not an elegant solution, but it worked for us until I finally built a new water-lift. Engine then ran fine until I sold her several years and several hundred engine hours later.

As mentioned above, the valve springs are pretty weak when new, and worse when old, so it doesn't take major crud to hang them up.

And finally, I would also rate the "techs" as predatory bastards. Avoid them and their families!

Cheers, and good luck with it

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Manly, Qld Oz

Great no $$$ idea. Be sure to tap in the middle of the valves if you can to lessen the chance of bending one. After it runs awhile it may loosen up again. Not fixed, but less broken. I would also add some Rislone to the oil, $5.00 and it has worked miracles for me.
I am usually against additives. I think that they sometimes mask a problem temporarily but don't fix anything. Rislone fixed noisy lifters in 2 of my cars. The most recent one I had planned to build another engine for but after the Rislone it runs so good that I'm leaving it alone.
Not affiliated in any way, just a guy who bought a can twice.

[roverhi]

A one cylinder would be an adequate engine for a boat our size. Should be able to find a take out for under $2,000. On SF Bay they show up all the time assume they would be available on the east coast as well. Should be relatively easy to do the exchange. A 10hp diesel will let cruise at 5 knots in calm waters and will probably burn under a quart an hour. Won't be a rocket ship but more than adequate unless you have to go directly into wind and waves in a hurricane.

The quickest and least painful way would be to get an exchange engine from Moyer. YHou can probably make the exchange in one day. You'll still have a gas engine, though.

Aloha
Peter O.

[Irwin325]

Ok there are some that would have you rebuild for 7K(plumb nuts). Or go deisel, just nuts unless your wanting to go off shore. I just did a MMI drop in for 6K. Easy as cake to do your self with minimal skills, just mark every hose and wire and no problem. The engine is already timed and carb is already set. I did have to adjust my transmision but from what I read is that is rare. Plus I had problems over Memorial Day weekend and by some chance I called MMI and low and behold if Don Moyer himself didnt anser the phone on Memorial Day Monday and walked me through on the phone. Moyer Marine is the only way to go!

[Alexei]

Well, it looks like I may not have to throw in the towel afterall.

Our esteemed pal on here, Chief Engineer, came down to the boat on Wednesday before I hit the road to look at the engine. His diagnosis is less extreme than the diesel-selling maintenance shop that gave the first opinion, to put it mildly. Maybe those guys were just looking to sell me a new engine?

I expect C.E.'s quote today, but I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about Icefire's prospects than I was.



More to follow.


-Alexei

[Cheechako]

Yea, in the beginning it sounded like the head may be the only real KNOWN issue. Hope it works out cheap! You are right, 10hP should be fine in that boat. You dont need 22hp.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Alexei

Well, it looks like I may not have to throw in the towel afterall.

Our esteemed pal on here, Chief Engineer, came down to the boat on Wednesday before I hit the road to look at the engine. His diagnosis is less extreme than the diesel-selling maintenance shop that gave the first opinion, to put it mildly. Maybe those guys were just looking to sell me a new engine?

I expect C.E.'s quote today, but I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about Icefire's prospects than I was.



More to follow.


-Alexei

Good to hear!!

This forum is a really fantastic place.

Best of luck.

[abnt1]

I am an x auto mechanic, if I hear you right people are telling you a rebuilt engine costs 7K? Run like the wind. Pulling the head off costs $0, what you look for after is the conditon of the cylinder walls , check for a ridge at the top of the cylinder and the presence of rust and pitting in the cylinder that are affected by the water, also check the manual for the engine to find the stock compression, if it's near 100 psi then just do the head, if the compression is way off then a used motor may be your best bet. Doing a valve job in a severely worn motor will result in oil consumption due to the better seal at the valves. First thing to do is pull the head and take a look.
Good luck