Boat Purchase: Offer Amount Question...

[OwenBradford]

Any word on the offer? Will you counter if he says no?

I'm eager to see the posting--curious about this boat that's so unique.

Will you share the posting once everything is resolved?

[Tyler Durden]

Originally Posted by OwenBradford

Any word on the offer? Will you counter if he says no?

I'm eager to see the posting--curious about this boat that's so unique.

Will you share the posting once everything is resolved?

No word on my offer yet. If he has a reasonable response, I would counter.

Yup. I'll be sure to share that when this is resolved.

[Cheechako]

Speaking of low: here's a Catalina 25 with trailer for free: Craig's List, Space Coast, FL (321) 952-2032 I just ran across it....

[hellosailor]

"There isn't another one of this exact model for sale in the country. "
Ah, that throws it into 'exotics' and then there's neither a book nor a market value for it, really. I know of someone on another forum who got a steal on a very nice boat for precisely that reason, only a few had been imported into the US and basically, no one was looking for one of something no one had heard of.

And that's ignoring any other reasons why no others were imported. Oddballs are a world unto themselves, and at this point, boat sales go quiet until February or March again anyway--so if he's had no offers, he ought to wake up and take a good look at yours.

[osirissail]

Conscience is wonderful but this is a Capitalist country. There are many things that are probably hidden about the condition of the boat which you will not find out until after you buy it and proceed to re-fit it for sailing. A surveyor can better ascertain obvious faults and some hidden faults based on his experience - but - he will want something in the neighborhood of $400 for his services. And he will normally miss half the things that need working on. My boat surveyed out only 25% of the actual problems that I found later. Your conscience will not be happy when you find "all" the problems with the boat. If the seller is a relative of the actual owner (who used and worked on the boat) it is normal to expect them to be "innocent" of knowledge of latent problems.
- - Standard practice I was advised to use was offer 1/2 of "book value" of the boat or a very similar boat and then bargain up to book value. At such a low dollar amount, seller's brokers are not happy with such a low commission and will work to get your offers to as high as possible. They are working for the seller, not you.
- - Unless the seller has an "exclusive" with the broker, for this price level you might be better to deal directly with the seller and bypass the broker. Just be careful and learn about the pitfalls of such a purchase. Boats of this price range are sold "as is, where is, with absolutely no warranties of servicability inferred or implied" which means once you hand over the money and get title - the boat and all of its problems, obvious and hidden are now your problems. As mentioned by others, you may have just donated the whole $9.5K to the owner and got nothing but headaches and an unusable boat. But then again, you might have just gotten a real "gem." That is what makes life interesting.

- -

[Rhosyn Mor]

Re; the conscience thing. Nobody will sell anything for an amount they do not wish to.... in some cases they depend on you having guilt about not paying a "fair" price.
A few years ago I looked at a 45 footer that was on the market for 79K. It had been on the market for two years. I offered the owner 16K. The owner called me up and asked if I was serious about buying the boat ( I was). We talked for a bit and I ended up paying 25K....
THe worst thing that ca nhappen if you lowball is that they tell you to go away. At which point you aske them waht they would take, then you can negotiate down from there...

[barnakiel]

A 400 USD for survey would be actually cheap (by European standards of pay) and I would be lead to believe that the owner may have nothing to hide, but the surveyor does. I think 400 USD per day of work yes, but I think it is about 2-3 days work, and some travellifting fees too, etc..

And I agree with comments above if related to low quality (or homebuilt) boats - there can be a lot one can 'discover' afterwards and this is why less experienced sailors / owner take a surveyor. On the other hand, I purchased my boat from an owner well known to the local community and I found not a single thing wrong nor hidden faults. I also paid almost 100% of the asking price and can today re-sell at roughly the same figure.

Surprisingly situation in the US sounds similar to Spain (where I am now) - asking prices way over the roof, deal prices much lower - but here they have a law which forces the ex-owner to extend a 6 month 'warranty' so that cheating is very common but also brutally punished.

But a quality boat (say things like HR, Najad, Pacific Seacraft, Valliant (newer)) will still retain a lot of market value - even if there is something wrong with her - because part of the value goes with the reputation of the design and boatyard. To some extent you can say that even if you buy a less than perfect copy of a good design then it is easier to re-sell it and thus the asking prices (and deal prices) will be relatively high.

b.

[Tyler Durden]

No dice. I heard back from the broker a few minutes ago. He said the owner said "no" and that's about it. I left it at that (he didn't even mention a counter offer).

1972 Paceship Acadian Mark II Yawl Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Originally Posted by barnakiel

A 400 USD for survey would be actually cheap (by European standards of pay) and I would be lead to believe that the owner may have nothing to hide, but the surveyor does. I think 400 USD per day of work yes, but I think it is about 2-3 days work, and some travellifting fees too, etc..

b.

I was quoted $480 for a survey w/ sea trial yesterday (the guy was recommended by boat U.S.)

[Steve W]

Very nice boat, looks like it has been well-cared for. Good Luck with your search.

Steve W

[speedoo]

Yes, it's a pretty boat. I'd like to know who designed it. Only other Paceships I know of are the AMF brand, but this boat is very different.

The owner's problem is that he has invested too much money in a boat that really has a very limited market. It's not an offshore boat because it's probably too light. It has an interior that is not as functional as it could be.... ok for a couple or a singlehander, but beyond an occasional guest for a weekend, the accomodations don't appear to offer a lot, even for a 30 footer.

OP, if this is the style of boat you want, there are plenty of Bristols and older Pearsons that might satisfy you. Cape Dory also, but there are not too many of those around.

edit: did the $480 for a survey include an engine survey? If yes, that's a pretty good price as long as the survey is thorough. I would ask the surveyor for some individual references and contact them. A reliable and thorough surveyor is a big asset for you.

[Cheechako]

I figured it was that boat. Looks pretty sweet, although pretty narrow. I Didnt understand what kind of engine it was....?

[S/V Illusion]

Depending on what engine it is (which is new), the condition of the sails and rigging and baring some unidentified problem with the hull or deck I can easily see this going for over $10 grand. No wonder the owner turned you down - he either knows what it's worth and in no rush or has too much invested in it to sell cheap. Either way, if you like the boat, offer what it's worth instead of trying to get it cheap.
If there are real problems, most should disclose during a good survey and you'll be back at the price you currently dreamed.

Forget about the common perception of how the economy effects boat prices - that is always used as a generality when the only important value judgment is that of you and the current owner.

[Tyler Durden]

Originally Posted by speedoo

Yes, it's a pretty boat. I'd like to know who designed it. Only other Paceships I know of are the AMF brand, but this boat is very different.

The owner's problem is that he has invested too much money in a boat that really has a very limited market. It's not an offshore boat because it's probably too light. It has an interior that is not as functional as it could be.... ok for a couple or a singlehander, but beyond an occasional guest for a weekend, the accomodations don't appear to offer a lot, even for a 30 footer.

OP, if this is the style of boat you want, there are plenty of Bristols and older Pearsons that might satisfy you. Cape Dory also, but there are not too many of those around.

edit: did the $480 for a survey include an engine survey? If yes, that's a pretty good price as long as the survey is thorough. I would ask the surveyor for some individual references and contact them. A reliable and thorough surveyor is a big asset for you.

Yup. I couldn't agree more. I would really like to know what the current owner paid for it. Something tells me it was considerably more than the asking price.

The taking up of the rear berth with the storage compartment wasn't a bright move, in my opinion. I would have taken that out.

There's a 32 foot Paceship sloop up in Anapolis (listed on Craigslist) that looks like a good boat.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/m...342584509.html

I forgot to ask that. I got the impression that it didn't and I would have needed to get a separate engine survey. Given the age and condition of the engine, I think I would have skipped on that though.

Yup. This guy was actually approved by the insurance company. I figured that was a decent enough reference.

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I figured it was that boat. Looks pretty sweet, although pretty narrow. I Didnt understand what kind of engine it was....?

It has a foreign diesel engine (not the original motor). Albin I think was the name of it. The previous owner sank some serious money into it.

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Depending on what engine it is (which is new), the condition of the sails and rigging and baring some unidentified problem with the hull or deck I can easily see this going for over $10 grand. No wonder the owner turned you down - he either knows what it's worth and in no rush or has too much invested in it to sell cheap. Either way, if you like the boat, offer what it's worth instead of trying to get it cheap.
If there are real problems, most should disclose during a good survey and you'll be back at the price you currently dreamed.

Forget about the common perception of how the economy effects boat prices - that is always used as a generality when the only important value judgment is that of you and the current owner.

Something tellls me he has a bank lean on it. When I talked to the broker, it sounded like he was a bit surprised that the guy wasn't willing to discuss it.

Offer what it's worth? The insurance company said that it's worth $8,500. It's only going to be worth $10k+ to a rare buyer that wants a ~40 year old boat that's been extensively modified. Anyone who is searching specifically for a Paceship would not be interested in that boat (the addition of the wheel steering and shelving would be a no no). Saying that another member looked at the boat and came to the conclusion that it was worth exactly what I thought ($9,000), I would say that I was fair for coming in where I did.

[Cheechako]

The pics look clean. IF the diesel is good, (I have heard of Albin diesel before... parts?) I would say it is a $10k boat. Just a matter of what else you can get for that, and how well you like it. If you like a traditional looking boat, yawl etc. If you dont care about that you can probably get a Catalina 27 for that and it will resell easy....

[Tyler Durden]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The pics look clean. IF the diesel is good, (I have heard of Albin diesel before... parts?) I would say it is a $10k boat. Just a matter of what else you can get for that, and how well you like it. If you like a traditional looking boat, yawl etc. If you dont care about that you can probably get a Catalina 27 for that and it will resell easy....

Supposedly you can order parts for that engine pretty easily online (it's a common engine in Europe, apparently).

Yup. That's what I'm thinking. In the event that I want to step-up in a few years, I don't want to get stuck with a boat that I can't unload. If I could have gotten a deal on something like this boat, I wouldn't have to take a big hit when the time comes to sell.