Brexit and VAT

[boatman61]

Is this the same idea that suggested we as individuals 'BUY' this privilege from Brussels..??
As for EU citizens in the UK my understanding is anyone who chose's to stay will be allowed to do so IF they are working and contributing to the economy and those who've been there for 5yrs will automatically become UK Citizens.. if they so chose.. bearing in mind this Right/Option has always existed.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Is this the same idea that suggested we as individuals 'BUY' this privilege from Brussels..??
As for EU citizens in the UK my understanding is anyone who chose's to stay will be allowed to do so IF they are working and contributing to the economy and those who've been there for 5yrs will automatically become UK Citizens.. if they so chose.. bearing in mind this Right/Option has always existed.

I believe it will be similar. To buy the privilege it will only be needed if the taxes are paid in UK and not on the EC country where they are living. The generality of the Europeans living and working on UK pay taxes there.

The same will apply to any British citizen living on a EC country. After 5 years they will become automatically citizens of that country, if they so chose.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

I believe it will be similar. To buy the privilege it will only be needed if the taxes are paid in UK and not on the EC country where they are living. The generality of the Europeans living and working on UK pay taxes there.

The same will apply to any British citizen living on a EC country. After 5 years they will become automatically citizens of that country, if they so chose.

Hmmm..!! been living (technically) in Coimbra for 10yrs.. all I get is Residency.. renewable every 5yrs at their discretion..
There's a lot of inequalities in the UK/EU deal..
Health UK. Free at point of service to all.
Portugal. Pay as you go.
and so it goes on to many other benefits.. that's why there's so much dissatisfaction with the arrangement amongst us of the 'Lower Classes'.. all to often the native Brits are sent to the back of the queue.
Lofty mortals don't notice this..

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Polux

The same will apply to any British citizen living on a EC country. After 5 years they will become automatically citizens of that country, if they so chose.

I don't think there is any country in the EU that _automatically_ grants citizenship to people after 5 years of residency...

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Don't tell me.. tell the guy in Switzerland.. he's the one who says its the same..

There is a difference between a "Value Added Tax" and a "Sales Tax". There is a good wikipedia article that explains the difference. And why governments like it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

... My understanding is it does not go to governments.. it goes to Central Admin in Brussels.. and as the annual membership premium goes up.. so VAT spreads to more things.. or rise's.

No. The EU does not collect taxes directly. The taxes are collected by the member states. What the states then remit to the EU is based on what has been agreed everyone's contribution should be.

The EU also does not have any laws.
What the EU does is issue "directives", which the countries then implement in to law. Which is whay when it comes to pretty much everything you are always dealing with a local legal system, and as a result there are differences in the way the VAT on boats is implemented in different countries.

The EU is still a treaty organisation, not a federal (or confederal) state.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

There is a difference between a "Value Added Tax" and a "Sales Tax". There is a good wikipedia article that explains the difference. And why governments like it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax

No. The EU does not collect taxes directly. The taxes are collected by the member states. What the states then remit to the EU is based on what has been agreed everyone's contribution should be.

The EU also does not have any laws.
What the EU does is issue "directives", which the countries then implement in to law. Which is whay when it comes to pretty much everything you are always dealing with a local legal system, and as a result there are differences in the way the VAT on boats is implemented in different countries.

The EU is still a treaty organisation, not a federal (or confederal) state.

Gotta Luv Legalese...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

I don't think there is any country in the EU that _automatically_ grants citizenship to people after 5 years of residency...

Well automatically is a way of speaking, as automatically as UK foreigners have a UK citizenship. And you are right, at least in Portugal where you only have a chance to get it after having living 6 years here. Other countries like Belgium, France, Finland, Sweeden only require 5 years
https://www.quora.com/Which-EU-count...p-requirements

By the way UK requires also 6, not 5 years.

A better way to put it is that some offer citizenship after some years living in the country, if one wants it and the other requisites are fulfilled, like speaking the language to have a free criminal record and a link to the community he wants to belong to. It may be a working link or any other that can be adduced.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Hmmm..!! been living (technically) in Coimbra for 10yrs.. all I get is Residency.. renewable every 5yrs at their discretion..
There's a lot of inequalities in the UK/EU deal..
Health UK. Free at point of service to all.
Portugal. Pay as you go.
and so it goes on to many other benefits.. that's why there's so much dissatisfaction with the arrangement amongst us of the 'Lower Classes'.. all to often the native Brits are sent to the back of the queue.
Lofty mortals don't notice this..

I have already talked with you about that. You don't have the same rights as any Portuguese to the National wealth service because you don't want to, at least while the UK belongs to the EC. You only need a paper (normally a card) issued by the British wealth services to have that right. The same with other EC citizens regarding UK.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...s/index_en.htm
http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=559&langId=en
I have one just like that. It costs nothing, you have only to ask it to the relevant authorities of your country.

Regarding residence I am not sure. Normally EC citizens can reside where they want, whatever the country but as UK did not sign Schengen it may be different due to that.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

The EU is still a treaty organisation, not a federal (or confederal) state, yet.

Let me finish that sentence for you.

Once again England can look forward to being free from the rule of Brussels, before that Berlin, further back the Vatican, the French and then Rome itself. Of course we would never think of ruling another country for our own benefit.

Pete

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Is this the same idea that suggested we as individuals 'BUY' this privilege from Brussels..??
...

But in the end you are right. You were, as all UK citizens (and still are) a European community Citizen and will not be anymore when UK is out. The proposal that is on the table regards the possibility of the UK citizens that want to remain, in individual name, European community citizens, to have that possibility paying for it (their share) that UK was paying and is not paying anymore.

This obviously comes to the desire of most EC citizens not wanting to exclude from EC citizenship the almost half the UK population that wanted to remain on the EC.

I don't know if that is possible, since the UK government probably can veto that to his own citizens and I don't know also if this is an European consensual measure. I may be wrong but i think I have heard Merkel speak against that.

[woodenboats]

It all depends on how the negotiations will go - if the british government continues to behave like they have until now there will be no exit treaty at all, the 2 year limit ends and the UK will be in same status as Zimbabwe, e.g. After all, 27 countries with diverging interests each have the right to veto.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by woodenboats

It all depends on how the negotiations will go - if the british government continues to behave like they have until now there will be no exit treaty at all, the 2 year limit ends and the UK will be in same status as Zimbabwe, e.g. After all, 27 countries with diverging interests each have the right to veto.

How an agreement can be made which requires 27 countries to unanimously agree? It is madness to think that remotely possible, especially as in the current scenario where there is great antipathy towards the UK for rejecting and weakening the EU. There are countries who will demand great concessions from the U.K, others who will demand money, others who will seek to make the deal bad to punish the U.K. And others who will seek to make the deal bad to deter other countries from following.

It is all the more impossible because the EU negotiator, Verhofstadt is a pugnacious individual with a record of anti UK commentary. Doing an attractive deal with him will not be possible. Similarly the commentary so far from the EU leaders is there is little encouragement for accommodation.

The problem is not the approach of the UK, it is the above negatives emanating from the EU countries. The only outcome possible is going to be a clean and complete break. A hard Brexit. That makes the two year process an unnecessary and futile exercise.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by poiu

The problem is not the approach of the UK, it is the above negatives emanating from the EU countries. The only outcome possible is going to be a clean and complete break. A hard Brexit. That makes the two year process an unnecessary and futile exercise.

YES!!!..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpEWpK_Dl7M

[Polux]

Originally Posted by poiu

..
It is all the more impossible because the EU negotiator, Verhofstadt is a pugnacious individual with a record of anti UK commentary. Doing an attractive deal with him will not be possible. Similarly the commentary so far from the EU leaders is there is little encouragement for accommodation.
..

Fact is that Verhofstadt is one of the proponents of that possibility of individual European Community citizenship offered to the UK citizens that winch so.

I like the vision of Verhofstadt regarding Europe: Basically he defends a EC at two speeds, one that would transform it in a federal state quite rapidly, leaving outside, but associated the EC countries that want to belong but that want to become a federal state. What's new is that those states while belonging to the EC will have no power to stop the ones that want to become a federation neither the ones that will be a federation power to oblige them in.

It is in French, but it is an interesting interview. If you want to know what he thinks about EC translate it:
Verhofstadt : « C'est parce que je suis un fervent défenseur du projet européen que je plaide si vivement pour une réforme » - Le Taurillon, magazine eurocitoyen

Curiously the election of Trump and his declarations regarding the Europeans and NATO have quickened the process, namely in what regards an European army, a first steep without witch all the other don't make sense.

[woodenboats]

Originally Posted by poiu

...The only outcome possible is going to be a clean and complete break. A hard Brexit...

Which will require british sailors to obtain a Visa (and pay for it, some 150 £ per person) weeks ahead of that weekend trip across the Channel... In comparison the VAT question looks irrelevant.