Buying costs

[TheRailRoader]

Figured this may be helpful for those who have never purchased before. I am a fairly open chap, but luckily, I anticipated expenses and planned for it.. I have seen the other threads being open on monthly expenses so any rate here it goes.. please keep an eye on CAD vs USD also I am recalling as best I can.

Valiant 40 1977 $20,000 USD
Survey with hang $800~ USD
New Chartplotter + other electronics $2,200 CAD
Batteries, regulator, alternators $1,600 CAD
Federally required pfds, smoke/co sensors etc $1,200 CAD
Marina $2,500 CAD
Insurance $750 CAD
Delivery Captain $1,500~ CAD
Flights $600 CAD
Hotel $160 USD
Diesel $100 CAD
Food $300 cad
Cell $300
Chap to drive us to the boat $250 BC to WA
Registration $250

CAD Total $11,460
USD Total $20,960

$39,377 combined CAD total

This is a little rough and dirty.. but gives an idea. The boat was roughly 26k Canadian and I am into it for almost 40k CAD.

Two notes I wish to make.. first, jump in eyes open, I did get slightly blindsided.. but I I have a budget 50k CAD for my first year. So while I did not know or understand boat issues, I know and understand vehicle issues and I used that to gauge my planning.

Secondly, my costs would have been blown out of the water.. if I did not have my brother. He is actually working pro bono were I will be trying to compensate him aka he takes the boat whenever he wishes until we can sort a better arrangement.. but vital to this was the survey. Knowing what to expect helped a lot. So either have deep pockets or be prepared to wrench yourself.. or have another plan.

Now an offset is buy a nicer boat but valiants were on my wife's shortlist, that's why I bought this one because she was okay with it. I had my eye on something else entirely Haha. I bought this beauty hating, and I mean absolutely hating the canoe stern.. which my wife liked 😭😭 but when I saw it in person I liked it. So do see the boat in person if able, I do not mind not buying a boat sight unseen. It is a means to an end in a way I want to sail, I want my family to be with me doing it, so I can bend

Now to the guys dreaming of sailing.. it is doable.. I would just hate to hear someone buying a boat then having to sell because it swamped them financially. Also I agree with others who say they are sailing for $500/mo, I think they are full of it or really bad at tracking expenses. I am setting up to have a 3k/mo passive income and even then I am not sure that is sustainable indefinitely albeit I think it could be.. but crap happens. To many nickel and dime suprises in the purchasing, any rate wanted to share and I like to ramble.

Here ya go
RR

P.S sorry for any typos etc tried to get them all but this auto correct is driving me insane.

[slo007]

Originally Posted by TheRailRoader

Figured this may be helpful for those who have never purchased before.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It certainly puts things in perspective for those considering buying a $300-400k used boat.

[thomm225]

Actually you can own a boat and "sail" it for $500 per month or less depending on the slip fees in your area. (cruising full time is a whole different ballgame)

This assumes you paid cash for the boat.

For starters, many don't get a survey due to experience with boats. This is also dependent on the boat and it's systems

If you are only going to cruise locally say within 150 miles, a smaller boat is fine for this

For navigation, a hand held VHF w/GPS and a chart will suffice.

Over the past 8 years, I've averaged just under $400.00 per month. This includes the present slip fee of $9.00/ft, maintenance and additions $12,500, and liability only insurance.

The above also includes the $3,000 I spent this past Winter for new Dodger and mainsail cover, haulout, paint (bottom, topside, interior) and painting supplies, shades, interior lamps, replacement GPS, etc.

The price also includes two engine replacements when I first bought the boat. $1300 for an old diesel and gear box and then finally $1550 for a new outboard

The boat cost was $2,000. It was bought within 80 miles of here so no air fares, no motels, no delivery skipper, etc. It was loaded with gear so no electronics purchases, no anchors, no rode. Just batteries and the aforementioned engines. It was also loaded with charts!

[TheRailRoader]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Actually you can own a boat and "sail" it for $500 per month or less depending on the slip fees in your area. (cruising full time is a whole different ballgame)

This assumes you paid cash for the boat.

For starters, many don't get a survey due to experience with boats. This is also dependent on the boat and it's systems

If you are only going to cruise locally say within 150 miles, a smaller boat is fine for this

For navigation, a hand held VHF w/GPS and a chart will suffice.

Over the past 8 years, I've averaged just under $400.00 per month. This includes the present slip fee of $9.00/ft, maintenance and additions $12,500, and liability only insurance.

The above also includes the $3,000 I spent this past Winter for new Dodger and mainsail cover, haulout, paint (bottom, topside, interior) and painting supplies, shades, interior lamps, replacement GPS, etc.

The price also includes two engine replacements when I first bought the boat. $1300 for an old diesel and gear box and then finally $1550 for a new outboard

The boat cost was $2,000. It was bought within 80 miles of here so no air fares, no motels, no delivery skipper, etc. It was loaded with gear so no electronics purchases, no anchors, no rode. Just batteries and the aforementioned engines. It was also loaded with charts!

Sorry I figured with stating 3k/mo was my budget, it would be understood I meant live aboard cruising. Sorry for the confusion.

I've seen marina slips, for cruise aboard with electricity and water go for more then $500/mo. Which started my assumption and belief.

Any rate I have a different question for ya, how do you maintain insurance without a survey? Almost every single insurance place I called, with calls from the EU to the USA to AU and Canada. The first words were almost always "does she have a recent survey?" So my understanding flawed as it may be is I'll be getting surveys every so often to keep her insured driving costs up.

Also I am curious what is your maintenance schedule on your boat do you haul out yearly? Oil changes seasonally? How much do you usually spend on fuel? If you dont mind sharing. $500/mo for my boat seems a little cheap but just for pure sailing, seems close to right. The lowest I've seen a realistic liveaboard happen was on a smaller boat for $1,500/mo and keep it well maintained.

I notice the $500/mo cruisers have noticeably less well maintained boats then the 2k or 3k/mo cruisers.

Any rate mid morning ramblings, if you prefer not to tell me just tell me to shove off mate. I'm a fairly open, honest and straightforward person.. who may be a touch to blunt at times. You wont upset me cause it is not really my business, I'm just curious.

RR

[Sand crab]

I insured my tri for stated value without a survey and it cost a little more than you initially paid for yours. I also had full coverage here in WA state with Boat US for around a $1000 a year. It can be done.

[TheRailRoader]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I insured my tri for stated value without a survey and it cost a little more than you initially paid for yours. I also had full coverage here in WA state with Boat US for around a $1000 a year. It can be done.

Very interesting, mind if I ask the company you insured without a survey with?

I did talk to Boat US but since I don't plan on coming back to the US for the next year, they were a no go.

To be honest, getting insurance has been the most annoying thing so far Haha.

[Cheechako]

Federally required pfds, smoke/co sensors etc $1,200 CAD

really?

[Sand crab]

Boat US, the head office I guess. I did it over the phone and had insurance in about 15 minutes. It was the easiest part of the deal for me.

[TheRailRoader]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Federally required pfds, smoke/co sensors etc $1,200 CAD

really?

Re checked my receipts for that particular issue, I did spend $1,200~ on stuff for federally required licensing. But some of that was updating old wiring, or well wiring not done to code. We soldered some wires together, updated outlets that were not gfci. Refreshed the breaker panels err fuse panels lol.

So a lot of little miscellaneous things were required for the boat to meet the federal sailing rules. So they were all lumped into that column.

RR

[TheRailRoader]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Boat US, the head office I guess. I did it over the phone and had insurance in about 15 minutes. It was the easiest part of the deal for me.

Okay thanks maybe next year I'll give them another try

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by TheRailRoader

Sorry I figured with stating 3k/mo was my budget, it would be understood I meant live aboard cruising. Sorry for the confusion.

I've seen marina slips, for cruise aboard with electricity and water go for more then $500/mo. Which started my assumption and belief.

Any rate I have a different question for ya, how do you maintain insurance without a survey? Almost every single insurance place I called, with calls from the EU to the USA to AU and Canada. The first words were almost always "does she have a recent survey?" So my understanding flawed as it may be is I'll be getting surveys every so often to keep her insured driving costs up.

Also I am curious what is your maintenance schedule on your boat do you haul out yearly? Oil changes seasonally? How much do you usually spend on fuel? If you dont mind sharing. $500/mo for my boat seems a little cheap but just for pure sailing, seems close to right. The lowest I've seen a realistic liveaboard happen was on a smaller boat for $1,500/mo and keep it well maintained.

I notice the $500/mo cruisers have noticeably less well maintained boats then the 2k or 3k/mo cruisers.

Any rate mid morning ramblings, if you prefer not to tell me just tell me to shove off mate. I'm a fairly open, honest and straightforward person.. who may be a touch to blunt at times. You wont upset me cause it is not really my business, I'm just curious.

RR

I just have $500,000 liability insurance now and for the past 8 years at $10 per month but I may get full coverage soon. No survey needed for liability only.

I change the oil in my outboard yearly. It holds 15 ounces.

Fuel costs are maybe $30.00 per year. My first 4 sailboats didn't have engines so i don't motor a lot and when I do my 5 hp 4 stroke outboard doesn't use much

I'm thinking you might be close on the $1,500 per month for a small boat to cruise. I'm definitely not going to try and save money when cruising when I go.

Also I will not be one of those that counts every dollar spent while cruising but I will be still maintaining a home for family members ...…

If you are counting every dollar then that means it's a pretty slow lifestyle or else you are really close on money available

[roverhi]

Not hard to have the expenses of a new boat escalate. With $20,00 purchase price for Valiant 40, even if it was a blister boat, wouldn't expect to be well equipped and/or in a condition not to need to some outlay. Recently bought a smaller boat and expenses got out of hand from unforeseen expenses that happened after the purchase, weather that wouldn't let me deliver the boat for three months, a $500 tow because of an engine shut down with no wind to sail, crew expenses caused by Wx delay and getting engine to run reliably, Diesel Mechanic to get the engine running reliably, dinghy purchase, and other things that ate into the emergency funds. Airfare, car rentals, and lodging aren't cheap if the boat isn't within walking distance. All things that can crop up especially on a boat that requires more than a short delivery.

Yes, you may buy a boat and sail away with no

His safety equipment outlay is reasonable considering inflatable life vests with harness are over $200 each. Slip fees vary but I'm paying $14 a foot which would be close to $600 a month. If he was in a guest slip costs may have been even more. Seems he may have mixed up monthly and yearly expenses on some items. Wished he'd converted all figures to US or Canadian $. That would have made it

[TheRailRoader]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I just have $500,000 liability insurance now and for the past 8 years at $10 per month but I may get full coverage soon. No survey needed for liability only.

I change the oil in my outboard yearly. It holds 15 ounces.

Fuel costs are maybe $30.00 per year. My first 4 sailboats didn't have engines so i don't motor a lot and when I do my 5 hp 4 stroke outboard doesn't use much

I'm thinking you might be close on the $1,500 per month for a small boat to cruise. I'm definitely not going to try and save money when cruising when I go.

Also I will not be one of those that counts every dollar spent while cruising but I will be still maintaining a home for family members ...…

If you are counting every dollar then that means it's a pretty slow lifestyle or else you are really close on money available

Aye with that breakdown, I think we are pretty close. My budget is 3k/mo for a family of 4. But I always hedge pessimistically. I plan on doing major over hauls the last two years before casting off so I can defer a lot of the major costs. But even then my budget is an absolute worst case scenario of $1,000/mo allocated to maintenance long term aka we somehow get demasted, the budget will handle it or if the engine blows out for some fluke reason etc. Just my personality.

Money is not tight at all, I am just a planner and budgeter. Took economics in uni and was a financial planner for a bit.. so likely got ruined there Haha. I'll have 3k/mo in passive income God willing if all goes according to plan in a few years here. We will rent out the house, we will also have two rentals at a time because the house already has a rental suite in it so when we rent out the main house as well it will be very nice. I plan on not touching the equity in the place while we cruise.. so if something really serious happens 10 years down the road.. we will be able to dang near buy a new boat just from equity.

Any rate thanks for the break down, my opinions are ever evolving so it helps. I figure this endeavor is like owning a business and the biggest reason new business fail is they are not properly capitalized, followed closely by people not knowing enough to run the business. I see that applying directly to this so I am aggressively learning so that we can cruise in style indefinitely.

My wife is also hoping we can somehow stick a washer and dryer on board so loads of $$$$ hahaha

Again I'm rambling lol I'll quit now.
RR

[TheRailRoader]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Not hard to have the expenses of a new boat escalate. With $20,00 purchase price for Valiant 40, even if it was a blister boat, wouldn't expect to be well equipped and/or in a condition not to need to some outlay. Recently bought a smaller boat and expenses got out of hand from unforeseen expenses that happened after the purchase, weather that wouldn't let me deliver the boat for three months, a $500 tow because of an engine shut down with no wind to sail, crew expenses caused by Wx delay and getting engine to run reliably, Diesel Mechanic to get the engine running reliably, dinghy purchase, and other things that ate into the emergency funds. Airfare, car rentals, and lodging aren't cheap if the boat isn't within walking distance. All things that can crop up especially on a boat that requires more than a short delivery.

Yes, you may buy a boat and sail away with no

His safety equipment outlay is reasonable considering inflatable life vests with harness are over $200 each. Slip fees vary but I'm paying $14 a foot which would be close to $600 a month. If he was in a guest slip costs may have been even more. Seems he may have mixed up monthly and yearly expenses on some items. Wished he'd converted all figures to US or Canadian $. That would have made it

The insurance, marina etc fees were all annually. I also picked up a BoatUS tow insurance membership that I forgot about on top of all that.

I am sorry in hindsight that would have made more sense.. I have become accustomed to flipping back and forth in my daily life and when I am dealing with US stuff I think in US dollars and in Canada with CAD. Next time.. after I win the lotto I will convert it all to the same currency, amateur mistake i am sorry Haha

RR

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by TheRailRoader

Aye with that breakdown, I think we are pretty close. My budget is 3k/mo for a family of 4. But I always hedge pessimistically. I plan on doing major over hauls the last two years before casting off so I can defer a lot of the major costs. But even then my budget is an absolute worst case scenario of $1,000/mo allocated to maintenance long term aka we somehow get demasted, the budget will handle it or if the engine blows out for some fluke reason etc. Just my personality.

Money is not tight at all, I am just a planner and budgeter. Took economics in uni and was a financial planner for a bit.. so likely got ruined there Haha. I'll have 3k/mo in passive income God willing if all goes according to plan in a few years here. We will rent out the house, we will also have two rentals at a time because the house already has a rental suite in it so when we rent out the main house as well it will be very nice. I plan on not touching the equity in the place while we cruise.. so if something really serious happens 10 years down the road.. we will be able to dang near buy a new boat just from equity.

Any rate thanks for the break down, my opinions are ever evolving so it helps. I figure this endeavor is like owning a business and the biggest reason new business fail is they are not properly capitalized, followed closely by people not knowing enough to run the business. I see that applying directly to this so I am aggressively learning so that we can cruise in style indefinitely.

My wife is also hoping we can somehow stick a washer and dryer on board so loads of $$$$ hahaha

Again I'm rambling lol I'll quit now.
RR

Speaking of your major overhauls before you cruise, I found my boat on the PO's return sail after his two year cruise to Florida and the Bahamas

After owning the boat for a bit I started noticing that lots of things had been replaced like thruhull hoses, stuffing box packing appeared relatively new, the jib was almost new, rigging parts had been replaced, etc. My self survey was mainly a tap test on the hull and deck. The engine was ancient so I figured it wouldn't last long

The boat sat on the hard 5 years though before I found it ……

My planned (WAG) $1,500 budget was for one person sailing a small boat South from here for a few months ………..maybe early Spring or late Fall.

It's way too hot down past about 30 degrees latitude in July and August especially along the Gulf Coast where I lived and sailed for 12 years