Cruising on $5,000 / Month

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by In Training

a64pilot
I thought the same thing that you had to be rich to cruise as I looked at the cost of boats and it was a lot. never thought to look at used ones. ...............

I've been shopping the used market for my children. Both of them are thinking of moving back aboard on to their own boats after leaving our cruising home about twenty years ago. There are plenty of good used boats at 20% the cost of new and an added 10% of the new cost can set them up for great success.

We live aboard and crusie our 39 year old boat. I can cruise at 65% of my income because I've kept the same boat for 29 years and I complete almost all tasks as "do it yourself" work.

I'm also not quick to accept all the new "toys". From 1971 to 1991 our only depthsounder was a fishing weight on twine. We also spent about twenty years without refrigeration. Even now, my total electronic navigation costs are very low: VHF=$150, Depthsounder=$100, GPS= $400, Radar=$600(w/gimbled SS mizzen mount). I could choose to spend much more, but I can usually pick up "cast offs" from my cruising friends on the newer boats that want the newer upgraded models even though their older items are perfect.

'so, I buy a cheap pair of reading glasses to view my 4.5" GPS screen that used to belong to my friend that has what appears to be a wide screen TV on the top of his binnacle. .......go figure!

[Cuttyhunk]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I loved Reverse Polish Notation. It required so many fewer key strokes.

Plus, no one will steal or borrow your HP. I have a 12C that my boss got for me in 1982. It still works perfectly. I think it is on its 4th set of batteries. I don't do much bond math anymore, but all the keystrokes are printed on the back for reference when I do...

[Jim Cate]

Sheesh, I've still got the HP 41 that I bought in 1983 to do celestial stuff on our first trip to Hawaii. According to the bit of tape on the back, it is on its third set of batteries... but I don't use it so often these days!

And when I try to use algebraic calculators I get stuffed up... RPN is way better for my brain!

Jim

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cuttyhunk

Plus, no one will steal or borrow your HP. I have a 12C that my boss got for me in 1982. It still works perfectly. I think it is on its 4th set of batteries. I don't do much bond math anymore, but all the keystrokes are printed on the back for reference when I do...

Way back in College, I had an HP-33E. Every now and again someone would ask to borrow it. Sometimes it took a long time for them to ask where the equals key was

[David_Old_Jersey]

Always been a bit of a puzzle about the "tension" between (some of) those on a low budget and those on far higher..... is it perhaps a bit unsettling to discover that outside own world (bubble?) that there are folks who do not place the same value on the bits of paper with pictures of dead people on them that a lifetime has been dedicated to collecting......

Life is full of choices and compromises - one of the secrets to being content with own lot is to not be bothered about those of others - as I said to the Butler only recently .

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

This morning I woke up to a 70 foot long tree balanced on my anchor rode/snubber. Once I got that clear, raising anchor also pulled up 2 1" rusty steel cables. First time that both things happened to me too.

Even with all that its a better day then the best day I ever worked.

I caught that same tree up the Napa River a few years ago. It gets around!

I also pulled up a telephone cable with my old Bruce anchor in Clipper Cove. Either that or an electric cable that wasn't still connected - no sparkies!!!

[BWB75]

What is the difference in the cruising lifestyle between those on low budgets and those on what must be considered medium budgets? Are the 3-5k a month people living on newish production boats and cruising in style? Or is that more on the 10k a month end of the spectrum?

[BandB]

Originally Posted by BWB75

What is the difference in the cruising lifestyle between those on low budgets and those on what must be considered medium budgets? Are the 3-5k a month people living on newish production boats and cruising in style? Or is that more on the 10k a month end of the spectrum?

I don't think anyone can define cruising in style. For some $500 per month is style and for others $1 million per month.

Some of the factors that distinguish monthly costs from $500 to $5000 are:

-Marinas vs. Anchoring
-Sailing vs. use of power
-Cooking vs. Restaurants. Amounts spent on food
-Insurance
-Area cruising and costs
-Working on boat oneself vs. hiring services
-Condition of boat, work to be done
-Electronics. Purchase, repair, and cost of any services such as cell phone or internet or subscriptions

Only you will be able to determine what makes you comfortable, what is style to you. Do you need hot water for your showers? Must you be able to be reached on the phone? Do you eat out? Spend money on entertainment? Require fancy marinas or prefer anchoring out? Prefer New York City or Mexico?

[BWB75]

Thanks for the response! We're not out there, yet, so it is hard for us to puzzle this out. I think this thread is designed to provide insights on how to match expectations to feasible realities.

I'll provide my answers to your examples. They may be representative of what many people dream of but are unsure if they can afford.

Originally Posted by BandB

Some of the factors that distinguish monthly costs from $500 to $5000 are:

-Marinas vs. Anchoring [Yes to both.]

-Sailing vs. use of power [Yes to both, probably will motor more than we'd like as that seems to be the trend both on CF and the charters I've had.]

-Cooking vs. Restaurants. Amounts spent on food [Yes to both, and probably on the high side. Part of the fun is trying the local food. So, dinners out probably often. Also, I confess that we are not cost driven with food. We must have refrigeration and we avoid processed food at home and out on the town. Except marina cheeseburgers, which are an essential part of life when sailing.]

-Insurance [Yes.]

-Area cruising and costs [SE USA from the Chesapeake to Mobile and maybe the Eastern carib.]

-Working on boat oneself vs. hiring services [I am very, very bad at fixing things. Fortunately my wife is great with stuff like this. But, the big jobs we'll hire out.]

-Condition of boat, work to be done [depends on the boat, which depends on the costs of cruising... the eternal do-loop.]

-Electronics. Purchase, repair, and cost of any services such as cell phone or internet or subscriptions [I hate electronics and they hate me even more. GPS for backup to the paper charts. Kindle for reading.]

Only you will be able to determine what makes you comfortable, what is style to you.
Do you need hot water for your showers? [YES YES YES. And for coffee in the morning and tea in the evenings.]

Must you be able to be reached on the phone? [I can't wait to get rid of my little plastic leash.]

Do you eat out? [Yes. It's expensive but we love it.]

Spend money on entertainment? [Sometimes. A nice dinner and an evening at the opera is a wonderful, awesome thing to do a couple of times a year. Museums are cheap and wonderful.]

Require fancy marinas or prefer anchoring out? [Sometimes. Not all the time.]

Prefer New York City or Mexico? [Yes to both, and much of what is in between.]

So the question is, can we live comfortably on a boat that is not too big to anchor in the quiet places and not so expensive we can't afford the cheeseburgers at the resort marinas? Can we explore the warmer coasts of the US and eastern Caribbean, from the battlefields and national parks to the local theaters and haunted pub tours? Can we spend some nights quietly anchored, watching the sunset, and other nights drinking with our new best friends in the Irish pub? Can we do it all without having most of our decisions driven by cost?

This, to me, is at the heart of the $5,000 a month thread. For working folks who aren't rich, and who are not brave or determined enough to make the compromises necessary to follow in the wake of the budget cruisers, is there an attainable compromise?

I think there is. I speculate and hope that, without having too much boat, something broadly resembling this life can be had for around $3,000 a month. Anyone with experience want to comment on that?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by BWB75

Thanks for the response! We're not out there, yet, so it is hard for us to puzzle this out. I think this thread is designed to provide insights on how to match expectations to feasible realities.

I'll provide my answers to your examples. They may be representative of what many people dream of but are unsure if they can afford.



So the question is, can we live comfortably on a boat that is not too big to anchor in the quiet places and not so expensive we can't afford the cheeseburgers at the resort marinas? Can we explore the warmer coasts of the US and eastern Caribbean, from the battlefields and national parks to the local theaters and haunted pub tours? Can we spend some nights quietly anchored, watching the sunset, and other nights drinking with our new best friends in the Irish pub? Can we do it all without having most of our decisions driven by cost?

This, to me, is at the heart of the $5,000 a month thread. For working folks who aren't rich, and who are not brave or determined enough to make the compromises necessary to follow in the wake of the budget cruisers, is there an attainable compromise?

I think there is. I speculate and hope that, without having too much boat, something broadly resembling this life can be had for around $3,000 a month. Anyone with experience want to comment on that?

For $3000 a month, I could live comfortably in the Med in a marina with all electric/water/utilities/slip fees/haul outs and repairs plus dine out every day.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Gee Don, your probably right. I've only sailed about a 1000 miles in each of the last four years. I'm sure you sail lots more. How many miles did you sail today. Myself alas only 4. But I've done 80 miles in the last two weeks ..

Where is the "whipped" icon/

[BandB]

Originally Posted by BWB75

I speculate and hope that, without having too much boat, something broadly resembling this life can be had for around $3,000 a month. Anyone with experience want to comment on that?

It's all about compromise. Again the age and condition of the boat will significantly impact maintenance costs. But I'd say you have a real struggle to meet that $3,000 mark. I think size of boat is critical to you meeting it. Go too big and the costs, especially marina, are going to push you above that. I'd think of it this way. Minimum costs (with insurance) let's say fixed at $1000 and that is eating inexpensively on board, some motoring, anchoring, and not running a generator when anchored. Now let's add $1000 for maintenance and repair and saving for big items, all assuming you hire it all. That brings you to $2000 and leave $1000 for non essentials or variable items you control.

Now, everytime you use a marina that adds. Where you are, let's say 40 foot boat. Marina adds $80 per night in your cruising area. Depending on boat and engine add $1-2 per mile for time on power. Every meal out add $10 and fancy meals out add $50 for the two of you. These are just arbitrary figures. So you'd have room for Marina 12 nights or Engine an extra 5000 miles or Fancy meals out 20 times or entertainment at $100 ten times. You can have some of those but not all. Maybe practice now controlling your food expenses to a budget. In fact, perhaps take $1000 and say that's all you have next month for food, entertainment, and gas for your vehicles. See how that goes?

Then cruising becomes compromises. Maybe you're going to Nassau and would like to dock at Atlantis for a week, go to a show, use the casino and eat in the nicest restaurant every night. That would be $1100 for the dock, $200 for show, $500 casino, $600 for restaurant. So which of those do you do? Many marina one night, limit self to $100 for casino, fine restaurant one night. Now you're at $160 + $100 + $100 and used $360 or 36% of your monthly variable money available. But the rest of the week you anchor, eat on board or inexpensively, don't gamble.

You decide $100 on cell phone or $300? Directv on boat eats money fast.

See for $3000 you can have a certain size boat, use marinas some, eat out some, go to entertainment some, but can't have it all.

Everyone in life, yes even the wealthy, has a budget they need to live on. It's managing that budget that's key and deciding within it what is important to them. This all assumes no financing of boat and that would certainly eat away at the dollars.

Think of how much you spend today and determine if that kind of spending fits or if you can live with the changes.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by BWB75

So the question is, can we live comfortably on a boat that is not too big to anchor in the quiet places and not so expensive we can't afford the cheeseburgers at the resort marinas? Can we explore the warmer coasts of the US and eastern Caribbean, from the battlefields and national parks to the local theaters and haunted pub tours? Can we spend some nights quietly anchored, watching the sunset, and other nights drinking with our new best friends in the Irish pub? Can we do it all without having most of our decisions driven by cost?

This, to me, is at the heart of the $5,000 a month thread. For working folks who aren't rich, and who are not brave or determined enough to make the compromises necessary to follow in the wake of the budget cruisers, is there an attainable compromise?

I think there is. I speculate and hope that, without having too much boat, something broadly resembling this life can be had for around $3,000 a month. Anyone with experience want to comment on that?

Yes, $3,000/month is easily doable. That is pretty much where we are on a 40' catamaran cruising the Caribbean. We don't skimp (well, that point is very relative), but we don't stay in marinas. We do put the boat in a marina for a month each year when we fly back to the US to visit family. Last year we spent the hurricane season in a marina, but were in an area where marina costs were inexpensive.

You can certainly spend way more than that (almost infinitely more?), as well as quite a bit less ($2,000?) and still meet your personal/social requirements and cruising grounds. The range in between will be determined by the boat, its condition and how much you need marinas and expensive restaurants.

You won't be doing what you want on $500/month, however.

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by weavis

For $3000 a month, I could live comfortably in the Med in a marina with all electric/water/utilities/slip fees/haul outs and repairs plus dine out every day.

Well that is another take. I was considering active cruising, but one could, for example, live in a marina with all utilities in the Rio Dulce and dine out every meal, do some traveling and get regular haulouts and repairs for easily $1,000/month. If one didn't have insurance payments of any kind, it could be less by that amount.

But I don't consider that active "cruising" - it is more like living aboard in a fixed place.

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Sheesh, I've still got the HP 41 that I bought in 1983 to do celestial stuff on our first trip to Hawaii. According to the bit of tape on the back, it is on its third set of batteries... but I don't use it so often these days!

And when I try to use algebraic calculators I get stuffed up... RPN is way better for my brain!

Jim

I'm with you on that one Jim! My HP41CV is literally sitting right next to me right now. I have never done celestial navigation with it - it was bought with a very precious amount of money when I was an income-challenged student majoring in science many years ago. It takes stupidly unavailable N-type batteries, but I keep a supply of them because I have never found a calculator that works and feels as good as that one. I have a newer, more modern HP32SII, but like the 41CV much better.

I use mine almost daily. Like you, I completely stuff up algebraic calculators - can't use them at all and my mind reels at their limitations and complexity of use.

Mark